Terror attack - New Zealand

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by UEA_Hornet, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Awful news from New Zealand overnight. 40 killed in multiple shooting incidents at mosques, including kids. The toll could increase. Looks like multiple perps, at least one of whom is an Australian far right activist.

    Too soon to say if it's a coincidence prominent Australian politicians have for some months been cultivating an anti-Muslim sentiment in their public utterances.
     
  2. Moose

    Moose First Team

    Truly horrific. Live streamed by this terror cell, celebrating as they shot people.

    The usual pathetic manifesto of white hatred left behind, the Muslims this, the Muslims that, even Sadiq Khan getting a mention (which shows how casual islamaphobia from the likes of Trump resonates).
     
  3. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

  4. Irishorn

    Irishorn Gael Force

    Mental illness and deep rooted ignorance have got to be a major factor in this unspeakable tragedy. Those who support far right policies are so much part of this incident, without firing the shots. To randomly shoot at crowds of people is simply impossible to comprehend, but they (the perpetrators), most likely have worked themselves up into a frenzy by heeding the rhetoric of others. Deeply upsetting.
     
  5. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Exactly this Stevo.

    Pray that this does not ‘inspire’ other hard right wing activists to attempt acts of evil, and also doesn’t lead to acts of ‘retribution’ by members of the Muslim community.

    Pray it does inspire a coming together of different communities to jointly condemn any acts of violence and help bring together people of different faiths in our diverse compassionate society.
     
    Stevohorn likes this.
  6. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    I agree with most of this but to put it down to mental illness is wrong, due to the amount of planning involved. It's also demeaning to people who are truly mentally ill.
     
  7. He is quoted as being inspired by the writings of Anders Breitvik and Dylan Roof. FFS.
     
  8. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    I'm no psychiatrist but perhaps we can class paranoia/brain washing/extremism etc as mental illness? Anders Breivik was declared sane by the Norwegian courts but i don't think any of us would consider him 'sound of mind'

    Not the time of course to go into a big debate about it but i think it's easier for us to process events like this by telling ourselves these people can't possibly be thinking like rational human beings.
     
  9. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Absolutely shocking events in New Zealand. Are the perpetrators mentally ill, maybe, maybe not, but there has to be something wrong with you if go and kill a lot of innocent people because of race or religion
     
  10. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The perpetrators are almost always scared. Petrified in fact. It's a common factor linking lots of them.
     
  11. Diamond

    Diamond Squad Player

    A disgraceful act of terrorism on innocent men, women and children. You've got to ask yourselves what did they think they would achieve by doing this?
     
  12. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Stoke up a little more inter-racial hatred ? Bring a race war that step closer ?
    I'm sure these types would be delighted if the Muslim community were to respond and kill a few "whites" as that would only escalate the divide and hatred.
     
  13. Moose

    Moose First Team

    But where do people like this get their ideas?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    cyaninternetdog likes this.
  14. Irishorn

    Irishorn Gael Force

    I note what you say. The use of the term mentally ill covers such a wide spectrum of issues. There will be an enormous amount of investigation into this incident and assessments on the mental health of the perpetrators. The term psychotic will certainly be bandied about. Every person on this earth will have loved ones, or will know people, who have suffered, or are suffering, with mental illness. This is a fact of life. You will accept, I hope, that I was not intending to demean anyone, nor do I believe my comments were demeaning. The fraction, thank goodness, of the human population (whether suffering from mental illness or not) who are capable of carrying out these acts are so minute. Sadly, however small the number is, the damage they can cause is immense. Like Stevohorn, I am not qualified to diagnose, but, if it is established that the perpetrators are suffering from mental illness, this can in no way cast aspersions on others suffering with mental health issues. The main person responsible for the actual cruel act, is a white male, as am I. The vast bulk of the rhetoric I referred to in my previous post, will have come from white males. I do not feel demeaned by that association. I do, however, feel a massive sense of despondency and sadness about this particular incident, even though there are similar atrocities carried out on a daily basis around the world.
     
    Unhappy bunny likes this.
  15. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I'd say the point isn't that if any of these terrorists turn out to be mentally ill it casts aspertions on others suffering with mental ill health. The aspertion is already there - people automatically assuming deliberate criminal acts like this require someone to be mentally ill is commonplace.
     
    WillisWasTheWorst and Cthulhu like this.
  16. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    How about we DONT classify these kind of people as mentally ill. The mentally ill have enough to contend with without being lumped together with these people who have made their own capacitous decisions to be evil.
    It would further stigmatise the mentally ill and mean health services would be responsible for having to treat evil - there is no treatment for evil.

    There is no medicine to stop people being evil.
    Just as there is no medicine to stop people committing crime.
    Even psychotherapy has very little evidence for effectiveness in psychopaths and the antisocial.

    We don't want them in the health system hiding behind a label. They need to go down the criminal justice route and society has to look at how we make sure less of these monsters come into being to start with
     
    Robert Peel and Moose like this.
  17. @julesmckenzie

    @julesmckenzie Academy Graduate

    Not in my name.
     
  18. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard Squad Player

    Ironically, it brings them closer in line with groups such as IS who adopt the same policy.
     
  19. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Precisely. The mentally ill are much, much , much more likely to be the victims of crime, particularly violent crime than to commit crime.
    The vocabulary of mental illness doesn't help.

    Schizophrenia is scary to live with it means you are detached from reality, often worried, scared, alone, confused. Society uses it as a synonym for evil as many don't understand it and what we don't understand we villify - it simply isn' true.
     
  20. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yes. They are no different, just the other side of the coin.
     
  21. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Bellingcat (NSFW) has been extremely quick to respond.
     
    luke_golden likes this.
  22. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Yes, that was exactly my point.
     
  23. As were, perhaps unsurprisingly, Aljazeera - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...-praised-trump-manifesto-190315100143150.html

    They mention his manifesto in which he cities Donald Trump as well as Anders Breivik - and they also add this observation -

    The gunman fires dozens of bullets at people trying to run away or lying down in huddled groups in corners of the rooms.
    The framing of the video, which shows only the gunman's hands holding the gun as he shoots and reloads, is eerily similar to the style of a first-person shooter video game.
    Maybe a valid point, maybe not.
     
  24. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    I dont believe Irishorn was thinking in such short sighted terms and i know i certainly wasn't.
    I think most normal (for want of a better word) people would think to themselves.. "that guys gotta be crazy" when they see such an attack. It's a normal reaction and i think we do that because we dont want to believe we ourselves are capable of such cruelty. It's a way of distancing ourselves from the events.
    Most people won't be thinking of the wider issues of mental health at that time.
     
    Irishorn and Cthulhu like this.
  25. Irishorn

    Irishorn Gael Force

    The utterly devastating outcomes from the attack, will include intense psychological scars for those survivors of the atrocity. Furthermore, others will use the attack to progress their own illogical fundamentalist views. Humans are capable of wonderful acts of kindness and selflessness, whilst others have the callousness to commit barbaric acts, such as the attack on the Mosques. Bizarrely, a person could be responsible for both types of action. Wars are full of such stories. For some reason, I am finding it difficult to shake this incident out of my head. I have not viewed (nor would I want to view) any footage, but just read reports and listened to radio news.

    I will, henceforth, leave it to others to comment on what drives a person to act in such an appalling way.
     
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    What I find surprising is the large outcry from the Muslim community on this. Usually when there is a terrorist attack the condemnation from this community is eerily silent. What is so different about this attack?

    People can be barbaric and perform such atrocities. History tells us this and it will take another 1000 years before humanity becomes educated enough to stop this from happening, that's if the human race lasts that long.

    Everyone plays a part. From the media outlets that report the story, those that upload the live feed and can't wait to copy it and publish it somewhere else, those that promote violence and hatred, those that are brainwashed, those that believe in religion, those in power that manipulate the truth, those that commit the crime and those who are secretly happy it's occurred.

    This will always happen, and no matter how bad it gets, you know something just as bad or worse will be just around the corner in future news.
     
  27. Moose

    Moose First Team

    I think it will maybe take a 1000 years for you to become educated enough.

    The Muslim community is not 'eerily silent' on attacks, that simply speaks of your own prejudice, your own 'them and us' attitude. Maybe it just isn't reported in the kind of places you get your news from, more shame on you.
     
  28. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    People tend to jump to the "mentally ill" conclusion because most people can't comprehend ever doing something like that. As a decent human being, the idea that someone could be sane and choose to do something so abhorrent is difficult to get your head around.

    The fact is that some people are just plain evil.
     
  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    It’s my perception. Your reply it’s a typical pc view of let’s just pretend everyone, apart from the perpetrators, all get along just fine.

    There is too much of this attitude of being shamed for posting an honest observation.

    Sometimes you’ve just cut through the crap and tell it like it is.
     
  30. Moose

    Moose First Team

    You are not even accurate. You are a lazy shyte stirrer who can’t even be bothered to google ‘muslim reaction to terror attacks’ before posting. If you did you would find plenty of condemnation, contrition, acts of kindness and conciliation from Muslims.

    I abhor terror attacks, you do too, so do most people on this board. What evidence have you that this isn’t the default position for most Muslims? Start from a Muslim person you know and work outwards.

    We are all mostly the same. Mostly good, a few bad. Surely this is evident?
     
    Maninblack likes this.
  31. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    You can be as personally insulting as you like. We all know people who instantly get abusive and insulting have no argument.

    Your supportive position of Shamima Begum on the other thread sums up which side of the fence you are on. So I'm not going to take this debate any further with you.

    I've posted honest observations, which are not only reported in the media, but from my own experience from speaking with Muslim people I actually know, but you cannot seem to handle it. Your showing a typical knee jerk response of intolerance.
     
  32. lm_wfc

    lm_wfc Squad Player

    What side of the fence is that?

    If you honour there's only two sides of the fence here and you are not on the side with Muslims then but your own logic you're on the side of this NZ terrorist.

    I'm sure you aren't though, but hopefully that helps demonstrate this isnis as simple as being on a side of the fence
     
    Relegation Certs likes this.
  33. Squibba

    Squibba Predictor Choker 14/15

    Sorry HB1 but how are you differentiating between the online outcry from Muslim's and non muslims? How are you measuring the outcry? Tweets in Arabic or tweets with the word "Allah" in them only?
     
  34. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    In fairness, he’s also basing it on Muslims he knows.....

    Pretty solid proof, I’d say.
     
  35. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    What about the hundreds of thousands of muslims killed in illegal wars by western terror states?
     
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.

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