Strikers Coach?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by EB Hornet, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    I think I remember a thread about this before, but i couldn't find it. People were debating the ability to teach someone how to score goals, some felt yu could and some felt you couldn't as it was more a natural element to someones game.

    That argument aside, there are definitely elements that can be taught, such as movement in the box when another player is looking to cross the ball in.

    On Saturday, there was a moment Masina did great to get to the byline and then looked up and it was Troy and one defender. My feeling was Troy lcked any movement and was easy to mark, making Masina's job very tricky. It got cut out and Deeney let Masina know his disappointment in no uncertain terms. I'm not so great at the IT so if anyone can find and post the section of play then great.

    But, back to the title of the thread, do we actually have a designated strikers coach? Someone to train the the likes of Deeney into the arts of movement in the box? If not, why not? Seems a fairly obvious thing to have and do. Finishing maybe instinct, but surely quick movement to the front or back post informs the person crossing of what they need to do.
  2. reids

    reids Squad Player

    I think I know the clip you mean - was it when Troy made a run in behind the defender, when the best run was to instead run in front of him? If so I should be able to get that clip.
    Chumlax likes this.
  3. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    Yeah I think so, maybe I saw it wrong, but it looked like he just kept a straight run the whole time behind the defender and pretty easy to mark. He went nuts afterwards, but I was screaming at him to make the move in the first place. Pretty sure it was 2nd half and Masina was the one with the ball.
  4. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    It was a poor run from Deeney.

    That said, I'm not so sure we are missing many chances. We just don't seem to create a huge amount.
  5. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    There was a report about one of our loanees in the team bus section, I forget his name and too lazy to check now, but basically it said we were one of the worst for scoring from crosses and they put the emphasis on the person crossing. However, I often feel we just don't have people good at getting into space and attacking the crosses. We are too static or don't have enough of those types of players. Look at Richarlison for an example of how to do it, the desire he has to get onto any ball into the box is impressive, and even when he wasn't scoring here, it certainly wasn't his ability to be there in the right places at the right times. Sarr has shown glimpses of being that sort of person and you could argue Gray has a bit of that about him. But it's few and far between.
  6. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Think it was this one. Dunk was doing a good job seeing where Deeney was, but as soon as Dunk switched on to defending the cross rather than tracking Deeney (aka when Deeney reaches the penalty spot), that's when Deeney should've switched up his run and nipped in front.
    EB Hornet likes this.
  7. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    At the time I thought it was a poor run by Deeney. It still isn't great...but that cross from Masina is shyte. Drill it across between keeper and defender and something comes of it.
    Carpster and Bubble like this.
  8. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    In fairness it's not as bad as I first remember it, but with the GK and defender going near post, surely a more extreme run to back post and Masina dinks it over to him? But it wasn't great by Masina either in that situation
    Carpster likes this.
  9. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    Thanks for finding and posting Reids
  10. reids

    reids Squad Player

    The beauty of working in football, makes it well easy to find clips like this as every game is broken down - it took me just 7 clicks of the mouse to have the right clip downloaded! (England > Premier League > Watford > Masina > Crosses Made > Brighton > Download)
    lowerrous and EB Hornet like this.
  11. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Was Kevin Phillips not coming over as striker coach ? Where’s he now Leicester?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  12. R4E

    R4E Reservist

    That cross should have gone to the back post. Dunk had gone towards the ball and Deeney was unmarked (admittedly he could have peeled off further).
  13. Rontaylor

    Rontaylor Reservist

    If he was available (he isn't) Zola would be the perfect choice. When he was manager he actually put a number of coaching videos online.
  14. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    Think people are being harsh on Deeney here. You can see as soon as Masina goes to pull the trigger he makes a burst towards the goal anticipating a drilled cross between defender and keeper ready to get in between both. This is where the work needs to go in on the training ground.
    Forzainglese likes this.
  15. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    This is something that gets discussed every so often, usually in the body of other threads or post-match, and Zola is usually the prime candidate. I would be thinking more like that dashing Scottish guy who used to have a segment on Soccer AM and works with England team, myself, to be honest.

    The idea does go to something I was thinking earlier today, which is to say am I wrong, or do a great deal of the goals we've scored recently follow the pattern of one or two players pressing high up around their box, the opposition are forced into making a mistake, we intercept and capitalise and a goal is scored? Obviously, that's a good thing; high-pressing to force mistakes and get a foothold in the game. The converse of that, however, is that I feel like relatively few have come from actual attacking play of our own; we have very rarely created the opportunities with the ball. I feel like it comes down to a mix of the lack of any player with real guile or genuine ball-playing intelligence at this level, an obvious issue with the quality of our strikers' play in terms of movement, and a further severe lack of coherent attacking game-plan.

    Reids, you might well be best placed to adjudicate on whether I'm right or not, I'd be interested to see if my anecdotal thinking has any worth, but either way I don't think it's easy to argue with the notion that we aren't just skying sure-things over the bar from six yards out every time; we have a genuine issue with proactively creating our own opportunities by using the ball, and have done for some time.
    EB Hornet likes this.
  16. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Chumlax, simpleMASH and luke_golden like this.
  17. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Masina rather lopped that cross in so might have been hard to control ..

    Might help if we have more than one plsyer in the box?
  18. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    I think the main problem is that when Masina looks up to make the cross, Deeney still appears as if he is more likely to be running in front of the defender. At best it appears as if Deeney still hasn't even mad his mind up himself as to in which direction he wants to go.

    Most of the time in the position Masina was in, I'd suspect that the ball between defender and goalie with the striker coming round the back would be the most effective, but Deeney didn't help him and give a clear enough indication of where he actually wanted it.

    Another thing, I reckon nicking the ball in front of the defender at the near post (as per that Haaland goal) generally requires a bit more pace and agility than is needed to merely collect the ball round the back - pace and agility which Deeney doesn't really have.
    luke_golden likes this.
  19. Carpster

    Carpster Reservist

    Absolutely needed. If a striker or forward thinks he already knows everything hes deluded.
    I played as a forward and my instinct was always to nip in front post giving the opportunity for the ball to the back post for onrushing teammates. Obviously its was nowhere near this standard. But was always told that sharp movements in and out from defenders makes them unsettled to stay with you or make the ball clearance decision.
    Be interesting to hear from a defenders aspect.
    Rontaylor likes this.

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