Sterile Football

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by ISO, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    As a fan I’m less concerned about our balance sheet and more about memories and the occasional highs you get supporting one of the smaller, less glamorous teams. The flip side of your point is that if they hadn’t leveraged the club with debt, what would the last 8 years have looked like from the perspective of what actually happens on the pitch?
     
    BigRossLittleRoss likes this.
  2. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I guess there is a balance. For me Pozzo has risked too much with his external financing. Norwich approach is too far the other way. Burnley is the optimum but an outlier.

    My point is yes they are relatively without resource, but they have spent as much as some of our rivals by borrowing. It’s not as if we are David and all 19 rivals are Goliath. If we had stayed up 6 years and come down with only moderate debt then I’d agree with you.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  3. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Burnley look like they're about to crash back down to earth now really, we talk about our squad being light, but theirs really is thin. If they go down, which is a real possibility now, what kind of position will they be in to bounce back? If they don't, will they be able to consolidate as a solid Championship club, or will they flirt with League 1 perhaps? For me, their model, as prudent and as smart as it's been, is very reliant on Dyche, and how long is he going to be there for?
     
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I’ve had this debate with Jumbolina before, yes Burnley are well run but we don’t know how they’ll do without Dyche and I for one think they’ll inevitably decline at some point. As it is it looks like they are going to decline with him anyway, let alone without, but of course it’s very early days. If they do go down then it will be interesting to see what happens. Nobody seems to ever fancy taking Dyche on, but I’d imagine he’ll want another challenge if they go down as he must be sick of such a limited budget. Unfortunately in most walks of life money talks, and football is no different, it’s very hard to sustain yourself in the premier league long term without a hell of a lot of it, or in our case a combination of borrowing and player trading.
     
  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I think Burnley would be in great shape. No debt, and most of their high earners coming towards end of contract. They have flexibility to release them, can use parachute money to rebuild.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  6. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    What is more entertaining than a scrappy 1-0 away win? I would gladly watch us win games like that all season
     
  7. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Depends on how many players they'll have left if they go down! Think I read something where it said could end up with less than 11 players left if all of their players whose contracts run out at the end of this season leave (not for one second suggesting this will happen, but still, there is sure to be a lot who will leave). They'll take some replacing, and the rebuild will either be relatively expensive, or cheap and cheerful, which brings with it its own challenges. They do have quite a good academy, but few of them seem close to the first team at the moment (although having said that, JP was almost a complete non-factor to us last season in the Prem yet he's doing well in the Championship)
     
  8. V Crabro

    V Crabro Reservist

    OK - makes sense. So in both seasons following relegation from the PL we have made absolutely electric starts, 39 from 45 and 32 from 39, before the wheels fell off! Probably best to reserve judgement on this season for a while yet.....
     
  9. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    All smaller teams us included have a limited shelf life in the Prem.
    It could be that Burnley have run their current race with the big boys
    simply to be replaced by a new "plucky underdog".
     
  10. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Or a Wolves, Leeds, now seemingly Villa after surviving last season and Newcastle. All big clubs who spent time in the wilderness but eventually got their act together, making it even harder for us plucky underdogs.
     
  11. V Crabro

    V Crabro Reservist

    We need to ensure that we get back up, hopefully with the likes of AFCB, Reading or Swansea. If the time came when the EPL felt that they had the 20 "biggest" clubs in the country in the top division at the same time, there might be a real move to breakaway.
     
  12. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    Sheffield Utd although not a proper small club appear to have had their time in the sun .
    Eventually Brighton will succumb ,teams such as Leeds or Villa ,if they get their **** together
    can expect an extended stay .
     
  13. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Yeah, the establishment only tolerate plucky underdogs just the once as well. We had our time in the eighties and weren’t even liked then. Bournemouth have had their go, so won’t be viewed in the same light if they get promoted again. Brentford will probably be looked on favourably for a season if they ever get promoted. Other than the odd new plucky underdog now and then they’d much prefer all the ‘proper clubs’ got promoted.
     
  14. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    Eventually the goal is for "big" clubs only and only 1 plucky underdog allowed.
    TV will demand this . No one in China wants to watch Watford v Muff .
    So once Sunderland Derby Forest etc get their act together then expect a closed
    shop with only 1 approved relegation/promotion.
     
  15. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I know we’ve had this debate before, but if they do have 11 players with one year left on their contract and their form continues for much longer (currently 0 points) then they’re in big trouble.

    Why would any of those players sign new deals? And if they did due to their circumstances they’d have to overcompensate to keep them and then if they’re relegated they’ve got their wages to cover.

    Yes we’ve got debt but we also had assets we could sell, Suarez and Estupinan raised £25m and they didn’t actually play for us. Burnley won’t have any assets to sell, let alone external assets, so to an extent its swings and roundabouts. They’ll still be facing a huge drop in income, so they’ll still need to cut their cloth relative to their current situation, which is bottom of the league and with a load of players near the end of their contracts.
     
  16. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Upon relegation I’d prefer to have a large proportion of players out of contract. It gives flexibility to restart without having expensive burdens you can’t sell and have to pay. Sure it’s a balance and I’d rather have my younger players under contract (like they have done with McNeill and Pope) but I’ll take Burnley’s situation every time.

    They have no worries at all when they go down. Why would having older players who are declining assets on premier league wages be a good thing upon relegation? Ship them out. Costs reduced. Parachute payments in place. No debt. Rebuild around Pope and McNeil or sell them and have every more income to do it.
     
  17. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    And McNeil and Pope will fetch far more than £25m if they want to go down that route. And they also have Mee, Taylor, Wood, Brownhill and Barnes tied up so saying Burnley have no assets to sell is a fabrication.
     
  18. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    But unless they’re trousering £60m+ profit from every Premier league season it’s all relative surely. Parachute payments are all well and good but it’s still £60m less than finishing bottom of the premier league. If they’re relegated and lose all their good players then they were in a bad place already before being £60m worse off. They’ll need to a build a whole new squad with much less money and pulling power. If Dyche leaves they’re just another championship also ran again.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  19. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    But they aren’t building from nothing. They have the players I have listed tied up plus others. They can release Bardsley, JRod, Vydra and free up wages. They have no debt and parachute payments to give them advantage over championship. Sure there are a few they wouldn’t want to lose like Westwood and Cork but how are they in anything other than a fantastic position to attack the Championship with 5 or 6 new players to augment their retained list? And if they fail, they become rank and file champo team with fantastic finances.

    Their future is assured come what may. What happens to us if we don’t go back up this year?
     
  20. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    I think sterile football is quite appropriate for this Covid affected season. Less chance of infection that way.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  21. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Well, law of averages says they would have got around to him eventually.
     

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