Success doesn't count as the fee likely would have gone to the Pozzos. Austin and Welbeck are poor shouts - injury prone and I'm not sure they'd even improve us. I agree that we should be able to find a good forward signing, but see my post above for some alternative suggestions that probably would have had more of a chance of improving us than the two you've clutched on to.
Of course the Success fee counts. It's on the Watford books and counts towards the expenditure of budget of the club and financial fair play. Just because the money stays within the Pozzo wallet does not help the club directly. You say my suggestions are rubbish, but that's just your opinion. I think most fans would consider both Welbeck and Austin would be upgrades on Okaka, Success and Sema. I suspect you're in a minority with your view that they wouldn't.
Yes I don't doubt there are better players, I was more doubtful that there were better players out there that we can afford to buy who would happily come in as a better quality of back up than we currently have, and make economic sense for us. Janmatt, Clevs and Gray were all signed as first 11 players. I doubt we will be buying a first team striker ahead of TD or De-le-lo-lee-fe -u.
Well, we're heavily linked with Sarr, who would certainly be a first team player. If Pereyra stays, then that would be an improvement in the squad. I think fans need to get away from the term " back-up players" all that means is "sh1t ones that we hope we don't have to use". We need to have more genuine competition in the forward areas. As I said before, the gap between the regular first team forwards and the rest is too big. There is no pressure on anyone as there is no competition for places. The midfield as a great example of how it should be. We have a squad of "first team players" for the midfield places. Capoue, Doucoure, Chalobah, Hughes, Quina & Cleverley. That's healthy competition, even though we have a preferred duo of Capoue and Doucoure there is real quality fighting to get in. We do not have this up front.
Of course it does - it reduces the amount of funds they'd want to take out of the club for themselves at another point in time (which would have reduced our budget), and it increases the amount they can invest in the club or loan it at another point in time. They'd be upgrades on Okaka, Success and Sema, sure, but I don't see what's the point in signing a player on a top wage that would only be that - it'd be an unnecessary use of funds. Rather put the wages towards someone who'd actually be worthy of a starting spot.
Surely when the accounts are quoted by some as the reason we can’t afford to upgrade Marriappa (for example) then the Success fee does count. If it doesn’t then we have to strip out any loan fees/wages paid by Udinese for Okaka and Zeegelar which would seem a lot of effort. I like your suggestions though and they should be affordable (except the West Ham chap). I tend to agree with Burnsy thought that the plan for strikers (not unreasonably) is to make do for another year and wait for Joao Pedro/Cucho to arrive/develop.
Agree that it's only worth signing a CF if there's a reasonable chance they could replace Deeney, and that it would cost some money. But given we've only spent £5mil on Dawson so far is it so unrealistic to be able to afford a striker for a fee even on top of signing Sarr, for example? We can always shift two of Gray, Success and Okaka for £5mil each at least at fairly quick notice if we wished to raise a bit more cash for another CF. Also, on the JP point - how many 18/19 year-old centre forwards have been a first-team regular striker in the PL? Can only really think of Rooney, Owen and Lukaku - not sure JP is quite in that bracket of development. Even Rashford was heavily rotated at that age. Even when JP comes in I think we'll need a more proven player to share the burden with him for a while. Not sure about Roofe - he went completely off the boil in the second-half of last season, also he seems a bit more of a Deulofeu/Lukebakio type forward than a number 9. Oh, you citing Rangers just made me realise that I forgot to add Morelos to my list of possible forward signings above. I've said before that I think his upside is more than someone like Adams, and his aggressive style would fit in well here (and his red card record won't continue forever).
Disagree with your first point, and on the second point, these players would not be signed as the sole purpose of just being an upgrade to Okaka, Success, Sema. They would be signed as genuine first team players who would have to fight for a place with Deeney, Gray, Deulofeu and Pereyra. I'll conveniently abbreviate Success, Okaka and Sema as SOS. SOS would never compete with the other forward players. Welbeck or Austin would....IMO.
Don't know why Deeney being an automatic starter is in the conversation - that's only a fact because our other options are so ****. No reason why we shouldn't have targeted a better player in that role over the past few seasons. When Deeney is on his game, it's fine, but that's becoming fewer and fewer games per season. Too many matches where he's immobile, utterly marked out the game and completely ineffectual surrounding the occasional captain's performance. I'd say if the observation about the type of attack Javi is committed to is correct (hold up player and off the shoulder, pacy partner) then we have Gray and Del in the latter, but only Deeney in the former, which means that is the area we should strengthen and we should be doing so by looking to get in someone to play in the first team, not someone slightly worse than Deeney. Don't ask me who though, because I don't know the names of any footballers.
And as I expressed, they might "compete", but as they're no better than what we already have it would just be a waste of money. I agree with Burnsy in that I only think it's worth signing a striker at this moment in time if there's a reasonable shot of them being better than Deeney and replacing him outright. Austin won't really make much of a difference to Troy and also is likely past his best, and Welbeck would more end up fighting for a place with Deulofeu (but in reality just be on the bench behind him, or in the treatment room, burning through wages).
Yep, you got it (though we also have Okaka and perhaps Success in the former, not that they're options much worth having). I've pointed out some other strikers we could have reasonably targeted elsewhere in this thread.
I'm a Troy Deeney fan but either Welbeck or Austin would be an upgrade on him in terms of ability. Austin is a much better goalscorer and Welbeck is a much better all-round forward who played some very good games for England. However I don't think there's any chance that our club could afford to tie up a lot of cash, either in fees or wages, to sign any player that is an injury risk.
Maybe I should of read the article instead of just headline put it down to lazy journalism. News now has a lot of click bait
As a matter of interest how much would it cost to buy a centre forward capable of getting 10+ goals a season. Anybody capable of 20+ would be out of our price range so are we talking £20m?
Do what I do with sh1te players, unerringly believe they will come good, until we eventually sell them for peanuts and then I turn nasty on them. However I do need one boo boy as a natural daily outlet for my venom and spite. Step up Massina, 2019 is "your time to sh1te"
Success is certainly Championship level because of his inability to utilise any of his ability on the pitch. Okaka is between Championship and Premier League level ability wise but with the endurance of an asthmatic chain smoker. Sema is a little harsh. He's a good squad player who can fill in on both wings and is a hard worker willing to track back and help keep the team shape. Agree about Deeney.
Sema is the kind of player to bring on with 15 to go when protecting a lead as he gives us a bit more energy at both ends of the pitch. He is bobbins though
He's one of the most one footed players you will see, but ability wise he's not bobbins. Not the level of Pereyra or Deulofeu by a margin but a good bench / rotation option.
I think Sema would struggle to hold down a starting place in most championship teams. A dreadful substandard player. On reflection I’d honestly rather see Fabbrini or Amrabat warning up than Sema.
Sema has scored more Premier League goals than Amrabat or Jurado managed. He is not very good, but has only had one season in the UK. I think it is fair to assume that the five year contract probably reflects the fact he is on lower than Premier League average wages. However at 26 it probably is make or break season for him this year at Watford.
Basing things off of last season: Raul Jimenez scored 13 on loan and then was bought for £30mil. Ayoze Perez scored 12 and Leicester just bought him for £30mil. Rondon scored 11 and was sold to China for £15mil. Mitrovic scored 11 after having cost Fulham £22mil the previous summer. There are also a few who have cost relative peanuts, having risen through the lower leagues over the years, namely Jamie Vardy (18 goals), Callum Wilson (14 goals), Glenn Murray (13 goals), Josh King (12 goals), Ashley Barnes (12 goals). Based on that, and other signings made this summer, then yeah around £20mil looks the lower range for a player one would think should be able to do that. even signings from the Championship tend to be pretty costly nowadays. You've still gotta hope that they don't end up a Jurgen Locadia, Andre Gray, Christian Benteke, or Vincent Janssen though (albeit Gray did do some admirable work last season and probably would still manage 10 goals in a campaign if he started every game).
Can’t wait to get this guy off our books. Done well for Udinese so hopefully some Serie A team will take him.
Not aiming this at you but based on that we have strikers, if you include GD, worth £20m but we want better than Gray or Deeney. If that’s the case we are looking more at £30m unless we unearth players like Richarlison and hopefully Pedro or Cucho
I already mentioned players earlier in this thread that would (or would have) cost more like £20m, or even less, that could be better than Gray and Deeney, eg Wesley, Cutrone, Defrel, and Morelos. And as I pointed out in my last post, other clubs in the previous season managed to also get players better than them for the same kinda fee. £30m need not be necessary, unless we were going for a player that would be a guaranteed hit (rather than a likely hit at a lower fee).
On the WFC Twitter site they have Foster commenting on how not many defenders would like to play against Okaka due to his strength etc... Maybe the players rate him more than the management and fans do?!
I saw that, but I think Foster was just trying to keep talking. You could have AJ playing up front and he'd be a physical handful, but useless at football.
So Foster is playing the Deeney role? ‘Kompany will know he’s in a game when he’s against me...’ Six goals later.... Let’s not be polite. Okaka can do one. He’s crap. So is Success. If Penaranada is meant to be decent, don’t give him another wasted year, give him 3 or 4 games to prove it. Otherwise, **** him off. Quite why fans want to give any of the above a chance (maybe save for Penaranda...for a while) is beyond me. They are crap. And have proved it.
Okaka and sema both lack quality and I’ve said it before they would struggle holding a 1st team place in championship. But they do have qualities that are useful Okaka holds the ball up and plays others in very well. Sema defensively can give other teams something to think about. I’d off load Okaka and give sema another year or so. Sema was bought for 1m. I’m sure the club can make a good profit on him if he has a few more prem appearances on his cv. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Okaka is monkey spunk, he was two years ago when some people were hailing him as the best finisher at the club and I have no doubt in my mind that he is just as **** today.
