Squad Rebuild

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Squibba, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    Let's not forget, in a division below where we are now! Clearly if a miracle did occur we'd have to retain our key players like Sarr, Deulofeu, Capoue & Doucoure!

    Can you see any of these players staying in the Championship? Hmmmm.
     
  2. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Absolutely.
     
  3. You can never have too few Right-backs.
     
    Jumbolina and Bubble like this.
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Don't forget Janmaat is actually contracted for another 2 years so he will stay but probably be injured all the time.

    Success won't be going anywhere as he has a long term injury now.

    Go down and I think even the likes of Sarr, Pedro and Quina will be tempted to move
     
  5. Scummers winning at Leeds. The M1 Derby next season is on. Only in the bottom 3 now on GD as things stand.
     
  6. Carpster

    Carpster Reservist

    I put a curse on the Scum backing them to beat Leeds. Your welcome.
     
  7. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Reservist

    Forestieri turned down a contract at Sheffield United, bring him home Pozzo if we go down
     
  8. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm First Year Pro

  10. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm First Year Pro

    This is the worst time to sell players as the market is depressed due to covid. Sane just went for £45m. That'd put Doucoure in the £20-25m bracket. Players like Doucs, Deulofeu and Sarr could be offered a year or 2 at Udinese til the market picks up.

    I strongly believe we should get a team of psychologists to profile which players are willing to fight for us in the Champo. Their analysis could b different to ours. Dawson last season at WBA is an example of a player who you'd expect to knuckle down and perform in the champo but by all accounts he was gash and baggies fans werent sorry to see him go. Personally I'd love to see Del boy in the Champo. We've seen what he can do to championship level defences in the prem. Catalans have a ridiculously overblown view of their own culture but they do value loyalty and commitment. Del boy could be one to try and keep. My first 2 out the door would be Deeney and Doucoure. We just don't need these types of egos around the club. I blame them more than anyone for our relegation. GT would never have tolerated the attitide of these 2, their delusions of grandeur and the way they mouth off to the media. Doucs can move to PSG and be their main midfield man LOL and Troy can go back to assaulting students and talking shyte on tv. Regarding the others, as an ex goalkeeper I think the definition of a good goalie is 'someone who doesnt let in many goals'. Ben Foster is about to collect his 4th relegation from the PL. I like Capoue but I don't think he'll be up for the championship. Pereyra is obviously gone already in his mind.

    I'd do anything to keep JP and Sarr. A season in the. championship would do them a lot of good like it did for Tammy Abraham and Mason Mount. I think JP will stay and Sarr might be off to Udinese for a year. Gray is one of the top strikers in the history of the championship so Id keep him. I think Hughes is a loyal person and would stay for a season in the Champo. And it'd be good to see more of Wilmot, Quina, Dele-Bashiru and Chalobah. I have to admit I would also have gone to that party too if invited!

    The key thing in my view is to get rid of the half-arsed senior pros who have dragged us down to their level of passive, entitled, millenial mediocrity. This is just my opinion but in my view the culprits are Foster, Dawson, Deeney, Capoue, Doucoure and Pereyra. In the cases of Dawson, Deeney, Pereyra and Doucoure their performances have been as erratic, unreliable and unstable as their attitides and mentality. In the cases of Foster and Capoue I have no complaints about their commitment on the pitch, I believe unlike the other 4 they always do the best they can under the circumstances. But these 2 are psychologically weak (not their fault) they are not leaders and their temperaments would harm our rebuilding. Foster and Capoue are the type of guys you would want to marry your daughter, they are great people and I really like them but they are not people u would want to go to war with. Get rid of those 6, balance the books and move on. At least we've still got the vic.
     
  11. Well done. However 5 points from 3 games and they are well on the way to escaping with their new/old manager bounce. Maybe Gracia could be as effective for us? Or QSF mk 3?
     
    Carpster likes this.
  12. It’s funny how football fans all see things differently.

    I don’t see Pereyra as not caring. I see a very technical player who wants the ball to feet and is ****** off with watching yet another hoof sail over his head every 30 seconds.
     
  13. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    And looks injured for most of the game - which he might potentially!

    Another player out wide who hasn't got the pace to beat a man.

    Maybe better now going past people in a more central role trying to link up with the forwards?
     
  14. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    Remember that Sane is out of contract in 12 months and was already on the verge of joining Bayern last summer before a serious knee injury. His ‘low’ (lol) price is due to City preferring a fee now to nothing next year.

    I’m sure Covid-19 will effect football fees to some degree but not as significantly as most other sectors will be hit.
     
    Moosegasm likes this.
  15. Agreed. Rich owners won't care what they pay for players, it will only be desperate clubs that need to sell to survive that may achieve lower fees where they can't get serious bidding going for players they need to exit. Clubs like us.
     
  16. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    Don’t forget Marc Navarro!

    I’d be so up for that lovable little wizard coming home. I haven’t felt such an affinity for any player since he left.
     
  17. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Reservist

    You could have a point here
     
  18. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Don't forget Janmaat will still be here too at right back ?

    And Kiko won't have to worry about defending as much if we go down.
     
  19. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! First Year Pro

    Wigan might get hit with a 12 pt deduction, which would put them back in the relegation zone (bottom I think) despite going on a mad one of late...
     
  20. Carpster

    Carpster Reservist

    Woohoo the scum are staying up. Something to look forward to.
     
  21. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Is it. I hated those games, probably because we lost more than we won. There are obviously a lot of fans that have never been to one of these games before, some on here I would guess, but on the whole they are not enjoyable, especially at their cesspit of a ground. I'm dreading playing them again
     
  22. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    Am I looking at an out of date table? The scum are still going down?
     
  23. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! First Year Pro

    Wigan's points deduction kicks in at the end of the season, if they finish outside the bottom three, it counts for this season, if they drop in, it's -12 points in League One. Luton are still bottom, but on a decent run of form (like a few teams down there tbf), and with Wigan now basically needing to finish 12 points above the drop zone to stay up, and Hull in turmoil, it makes their task that bit easier
     
  24. HELGO

    HELGO Reservist

    Kiko will want out quicker than a rat out of an aqueduct
     
  25. Mitchyman7398

    Mitchyman7398 Academy Graduate

    So I've been thinking about this one for a long time, if us getting relegated is indeed what plays out. As many have said, I think it would induce a summer of massive change for us. A lot will want to leave, but the wages are also going to be a big factor on probably who stays and who goes as well as who we can justify holding onto. We also have a few conundrums to deal with in terms of specific players and their deals. At the end I'll categorise where I see each player in relation to their future.

    When referring to wages I am using this as a source, the specific figures may not be correct but the hierarchy of who earns most may well be a little more realistic. Anyone I don't mention a wage for is because that data isn't available. https://www.spotrac.com/epl/watford/payroll/

    Starting with the notable players who have / still are out on loan:

    - Ken Sema (Udinese)
    - Pontus Dahlberg (Emmen)
    - Ben Wilmot (Swansea)
    - Pervis Estupinan (Osasuna)
    - Dimitri Foulquier (Granada)
    - Marc Navarro (Leganes)
    - Jerome Sinclair (VVV-Venlo)
    - Cucho Hernandez (Mallorca)
    - Luis Suarez (Zaragoza)

    So straight away, we all agree Ken Sema (£15,00 pw) is most likely going to end up a Udinese permanently. Pervis Estupinan and Luis Suarez look increasing likely to leave, both commanding significant fees, and perhaps less significant Foulquier and Sinclair (£20,000 pw) will be moved on. I expect Dahlberg (£3,000 pw) and Wilmot (£5,000) to return to feature within the squad. This leaves Cucho Hernandez and Marc Navarro (£23,000 pw). I am hoping and it may look like Cucho will be a part of the squad, a lot of focus on him on the clubs social media and he himself speaks highly of Watford, despite that if an offer came in I wouldn't be surprised if he is let go, but here's to hoping. As for Navarro, I think he has been far from a regular for Leganes across the season so lets assume he won't be staying and will return to the club.

    We have 3 notable players out of contract, Gomes (£35,000 pw) Holebas (£30,000 pw) and Mariappa (£15,000 pw). By all accounts it looks certain Gomes and Holebas will leave and I'll get back to Mariappa a bit later on.

    Straight off the bat, we know for a fact their is a few individuals that will be gone if we was to get relegated. The likes of Doucoure (£70,000 pw), Pererya (£45,000 pw), Deulofeu (£60,000 pw) and Sarr. I think they are the four absolute dead certainties to go, the caveat with Deulofeu is obviously the injury and if anyone would want to make the move for the right amount of money, but if not in the summer / Autumn window, we can assume he would definitely get a move in the winter window.

    Then we look at the rest of the squad and their are a few that I think and I imagine the club will think they want to move on. The two that immediately jump out to me is Andre Gray (£70,000 pw) and Isaac Success (£30,000 pw). The issue with Gray that has been widely recognised on here is who will pay the wages Gray is on, some have said he could be good for us in the Championship, whilst I don't disagree, I also don't 100% agree either. I think the general consensus is that the relationship with the club has run its course and its time to go our separate ways, and the whole party debacle probably reinforces that. As for Success, I saw someone earlier say it has a move to Turkey written all over it and I could not agree more. Just as a side note, I would personally put Janmaat (£45,000 pw) into this category despite the new contract. Ageing, injury prone and expensive but as just mentioned, the new deal might prevent that.

    Their are a few players that I'm not totally sure what will be done with if we was to go down. I think Pussetto, Penaranda (£18,000 pw), Kabasele (£30,000 pw), Femenia (£20,000 pw), Capoue (£40,000 pw), Cleverley (£50,000 pw), Welbeck (£20,000 pw if he doesn't play, £70,000 pw if he does) & Foster (£30,000 pw). Obviously some big names in their, but just how high their wages are is what I deem as an issue. However, I see a lot of them staying. I would personally move on Kabasele, I would consider letting Foster and Capoue go simply because of age and with going down a good chance to reset, letting younger players come through would be a good option, but of course if both are kept I would not be angry or argue with that decision. I would keep Femenia & Cleverley, and while I would keep Pussetto & Penaranda, I wouldn't rule a return to Udinese & a move elsewhere respectively. Welbeck is the conundrum that plays on my mind a lot, like many, his contract may have a relegation clause, which is the only way I can justify keeping him. The fact he can barely stay fit is obviously the issue but even if he can, is £70,000 to much considering Deeney will probably stay and he is on £65,000? A really tough one.

    I have a few players I would very much want to keep and do the utmost to do that. The midfield 3 of Chalobah (£35,000 pw), Will Hughes (£30,000 pw) and Quina (£8,000 pw). More defensively I'd really like to keep Masina (£28,000 pw) and Daniel Bachmann (£3,000 pw). Obviously would really want to keep Joao Pedro and Cucho, though as I said earlier, I'm not totally convinced that will happen.

    So if we was to categorise the players it would potentially look like this:

    Leave:

    Pererya
    Doucoure
    Sarr
    Deulofeu*
    Sema
    Estupinan
    Suarez
    Gray
    Success
    Janmaat
    Foulquier
    Sinclair
    Holebas
    Gomes

    Unsure what will happen:

    Foster
    Kabasele
    Femenia
    Navarro
    Capoue
    Cleverley
    Pussetto
    Penaranda
    Welbeck
    Cucho

    Stay:

    Dahlberg
    Bachmann
    Dawson
    Cathcart
    Wilmot
    Mariappa (Think he'll get a 1 year deal if we went down)
    Masina
    Chalobah
    Dele-Bashiru
    Hughes
    Quina
    Joao Pedro
    Deeney

    Now obviously not all this movement is going to happen, so below is the squad with a combination of what I think could happen and what I would do:

    GK- Dahlberg & Bachmann

    RB- Femenia

    CB- Cathcart, Dawson, Wilmot & Mariappa

    LB- Masina

    CM- Quina, Hughes, Cleverley, Dele-Bashiru, Chalobah

    WG- Pussetto, Joao Pedro, Penaranda

    ST- Deeney, Cucho

    A pretty depleted squad but a lot people do think a rebuild is needed. However, can definitely see Foster, Kabasele, Navarro, Capoue & Welbeck being kept about despite the wages.

    Anyway, just thought I'd post this as a bit of fun, as you can tell it has obviously been a slow day. Apologies if I have forgotten any players.
     
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  26. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    League one is calling if we drop. All the decent players will leave, we will be left with the dross and unable to attract anyone decent. Christ we can’t attract much now


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  27. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    How will this happen? Our owners won't let it happen. You don't have much faith in them and that's unfair
     
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  28. Why do I keep reading Pervis Estupinan and Luis Suarez are likely to leave?

    Why is Luis Suarez, who has only had a good season in Spanish league 2 for goodness sake, a league lower in quality than our championship, suddenly worth £20M+? Gray would be a 20+ goal a season striker in that league.
     
  29. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Open your eyes mate. Our owners would be long gone if we dropped to league one. Taking all their assets with them.


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  30. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    20 goals a season and Andre Gray don’t belong in same sentence


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  31. Can't be bothered to check but he got something like that at Brentford in the champ
     
  32. Mitchyman7398

    Mitchyman7398 Academy Graduate

    I’d probably say it’s down to the interest in them. Lazio seem interested in Suarez and a host of big clubs have take an interest in Estupinan
     
  33. Their names are bandied around in the press yes, like a thousand other players, probably by their agents, but we don't know any big club has taken any interest in them
     
  34. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    At Burnley I think - he won Championship player of the year !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36069123
     
  35. Mitchyman7398

    Mitchyman7398 Academy Graduate

    whilst I don’t disagree, both have had impressive season, especially Estupinan. So while we don’t know for sure, it’s pretty likely they’ll attract interest
     

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