We can. We really have to. But can we realistically offload all of the other four? Hence the question.
We need to do our best to, it might not be easy or entirely possible, but if we don’t then it’s a Norwich season and see you all on the other side. With the exception of Peneranda (who has been crap in Bulgaria so we can probably draw the same conclusions) none of them are even good enough for the championship, and I suspect probably not even League one. We scored less than a goal per game last Premier League season and it’s not as if Deeney Success or Gray are actually better two years later, they’ve in fact declined even more dramatically than you’d have expected. Lord only knows what horrors await us if we don’t have several different options up front next season.
This is the issue and the fact that we've stood still in this area for 6 or more windows, despite painfully obvious evidence we needed to improve. If we've painted ourselves into a corner, it's no defence. We've had ages to sort this out.
We'll, yeah, we have to. My point is, how many strikers can you realistically see coming in? Also, I would be surprised if we manage to offload many of our current lot. We will most likely be stuck with at least 2 of them.
I think what’s happening with some fans with Deeney is to an extent a bit like what happened with Gray. I was guilty of believing he might actually be a decent championship striker, because he was a few years ago. This was a conclusion drawn contrary to all prior and more recent evidence that he was actually just a terrible footballer. Troy hasn’t played for a long time, he’s pumped out a few interviews giving excuses as to why he was so terrible when he last played, and people are starting to forget this. Suddenly his our best striker option, he might somehow actually be able to defy logic and science and start performing like he did about five years ago. This is despite the recent compelling evidence of just how bad he his, and how much he negatively affected our team and formation. We literally went from probably not making the playoffs to automatic promotion because we no longer had to shoe-horn him into the team. Gray can actually score more frequently and fit into a formation that enables us to play far more effectively. He’s still nowhere near the answer, but unless you’ve missed the last season and everything that happened he’s still actually a far better option then Troy, regardless of how many interviews he gives about having a point to prove and excuses as to why he hasn’t played well for five years.
Troy gets too many passes because he's earned legendary status and because he says all the right things in interviews. I saw him on BBC breakfast, primarily talking about the disgusting abuse he receives daily on social media, but also about how he was coming back into fitness and wanted to play next season in the prem. You watch him and you think 'good old deeney' and the highlight reel of great Deeney moments scrolls in your mind. Except those moments are all scarcer and scarcer as time goes on. He should have left the club 2 years ago at the very latest, to enjoy his final days somewhere else and with legendary status intact. Instead he's chipped away at his legacy with ill judged comments, woeful performances, ill discipline on the pitch and in his own self care and basically needs to get gone ASAP.
I should hope someone younger, quicker and more injury free than Deeney is better than him. Shame Gray seems to have no footballing ability apart from being able to run fast. How did he cost 18 million exactly ?! He must be a defenders dream - just let him try to control the ball and we’ll get it back in no time. That has to be the first plan - get a striker who can actually trap a football and hold it up bringing others into play as we won’t have much of the ball so will need to use it wisely.
That’s exactly it. Much like a bad relationship, people have a tendency to forget all the bad stuff, eulogise the good stuff and think it will be different 2nd/3rd time around. That is what is happening with Troy now. People are forgetting what happened only this season, just how absolutely appalling we were in a 442 with him playing, that’s fading to the back and his constant publicity is bringing his highlights to the front of their minds. He won’t be any better this time around, he’ll be even worse still.
Well he is supposed to be quick in relative terms isn’t he ? (Certainly to Deeney ) Otherwise what qualities does Gray have. Not a big tall, physical striker or one who holds the ball up. We must have seen something in him to pay the money and make him a top earner.
Imo Gray has absolutely zero qualities. I've said that all along and been very vocal about it on here. A footballer who doesn't have a first touch doesn't belong in any team let alone a Premier club.
This was an illusion that he managed to conjure whilst briefly in possession of the Reality Stone, largely coinciding with the period he was at Brentford. How he wielded it I'm not quite sure, but it possibly indicates some kind of alien heritage. That would also explain his extreme lack of familiarity with the fundamentals of manipulating the flight and path of a football.
In his WD18 Troy was talking about his goals in the 2013/14 season to bolster his reputation. That season started nearly 8 years ago. If he couldnt score from open play in the champo this season how is he gonna do it in the prem. His body is shot, it's taken more than it can handle on and off the pitch. It would b insane to rely on Troy next season. He only scores penalties and will be picking up more and more injuries in the twilight of his career.
He’s on a PR offensive, he’s positioning himself as being at the forefront for us next season and making himself as hard to drop/get rid of as possible. As soon as we were relegated last season he was talking about how he was still a PL player, how Spurs were interested and he’d spoken to Mourinho. Obviously that never happened and now never will. He’d struggle to get a championship team now so his best chance to remain relevant is with us. It’s all quite worrying if you ask me, and I hope the club can see past it all and do what is right for Watford, not what is right for one individual claiming they’re something they clearly no longer are. Just because Troy keeps popping up in the media and saying he still has a part to play, it doesn’t make the actual reality any different.
That WD18 channel is the most revolting club-associated puff piece gaslighting PR-station in existence - the pure embodiment of faux-enthusiastic, utterly unquestioning questioning - 'So Tom, can I call you Clevs? Clevs, that must have been one of the best moments of the season for you, can you tell us how you felt about it, was it one of the best moments of the season?' All Youtube thumbnail pics and no insight whatsoever, of the kind that so many internet denizen fans just bizarrely lap up. Repulsive. Clever, and very purposeful, but repulsive.
The cost of paying them next year may cause an issue in getting replacements though. Apparently we wanted Toney last summer but because we couldn't shift the present incumbents we couldn't sign them. We basically need to get rid first. Sadly Deeney, Gray and Success all have contracts up until June 2022 and beyond and nobody will pay them what we do so they won't leave. Loans for Success or Gray are the best we can hope for
I read it more as him meaning he was not intending to happily accept being a bit-part player as he is determined to prove he can still be an important contributor for us. I don't think it necessarily means "put me in the starting 11 or I'll make sure we get relegated". (The two stances not being mutually exclusive of course!) It also depends on the interpretation of "bit-part player" in an EPL squad. Solskjaer could have been described as such at ManUre, as he was not really a first-choice starter, but no-one could deny the importance of his contribution to their success. Similarly, David Fairclough at Liverpool; the original 'super-sub'. If TD's role is to be a rare starter against certain teams, but to be pencilled-in to come on after 60/65 minutes if the game status dictates, then maybe he'll accept that. Whether he'll be up to it all physically will be the acid test. I await certain posters' assertion that it 'obviously' means he is hinting at assassinating the entire coaching staff if he does not start every game.
As I've said previously, past mistakes are no excuse. We've had ages to plan for upgrading this area of the team. If we can't do it now, it's because we've not done it already.
I've only watched it for the Deeney interview and I quickly spotted and got annoyed with the leading questions too. I get they're not trained journalists but for farks sake, ask people questions without giving them the answer you want built in. Or apologising for asking them in some weird deferential approach.
He scored both goals against Wycombe and added another running from near the half way line to slot home not that long ago. So he is slightly better than having no footballing ability tbf. Likely to be not good enough for us in the PL mind you but to say he has no football ability isn't correct. And from what I have seen from Success in the same time period, Gray is our Alan Shearer compared to him.
Whatever our financial situation, what better time to bite the bullet with this? in our first season up we spent about £30m, prize money for finishing bottom is about £100m. Teams like Fulham and Villa have previously spent the whole lot in an attempt to stay up, we won’t but we didn’t the first time around. We’ll spend some money, and some of that money could easily go on a fresh start by getting rid of the dead wood we currently have in the forward positions. The problem is Gino gets too hung up on sunk costs, he’s too hung up on what he’s paid for something and he lets that influence his decision making. There is absolutely no reason we can’t address this issue, but if we don’t it’s because Gino doesn’t want to not because he can’t afford to.
Unfortunately mistakes can't just be erased though. Approx £150k a week between them is not something we can just ignore because we desperately need an upgrade. Not all the clubs fault in fairness either. The signing of Gray is but Success is has ballsed up his own career after showing a lot of promise. Deeney should probably have gone after the cup final but again another team needs to want him first. The fact is we need to move at least two of them on but not sure how or where to
A cash flow problem is no sunk cost - it is infact the polar opposite The hole from 20/21 is unknown but it will be large The upward adjustment to a PL cost base (player wages in the main) is large The recurrent change to income is zero - we could be relegated with a parachute, that with wage reductions, nearly covers the income loss and that for one year If you imagine we have much scope for a chunky budget for player transfers then I think you are probably not right
Firminio is a number 9 who for many years was criticised for not scoring goals, despite Liverpool scoring lots with him in the team. The number on the shirt does not define the apparent position which, in turn, does not define the role. To be clear, I absolutely agree that our priority is to get a goal scorer, and the Pozzos clearly realise that, if the initial rumours are to believe. Nor do I believe that Troy is that goal scorer. That does not mean I don’t think he has the ability and character to do a job in the squad.
It’s really not that unknown, we know how much we would’ve and did earn in the PL and we know how much the parachute payment was, therefore we know the difference between the two, which was effectively the cost of being relegated. We did make quite a few player sales which off the top of my head would’ve bridged a fair percentage of that gap between the two. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying our financial position is rosy, but upon relegation we did to a large extent cut our cloth accordingly. The point about sunk costs relate to the fact we paid £18m for Gray and Troy is on £70k per week. Trying to get value for those figures will be impossible, we’re just as well to write those costs off and start again, but Gino struggles to do that because he wants to try and get value from money he’s spent out, even if it’s actually detrimental to do so. He’d possibly rather keep both of those players and negatively affect the team, rather than just write the costs off and get rid of them.
“ the majority of right-thinking people”. That’ll be people who think like you? Strangely, I believe right-thinking people think like me. On another WFC forum I inhabit, the majority believe Troy can still do a job for us, and see many positives he has brought, and still brings, to the group. Clearly they are all wrong-thinking people, despite them acknowledging his negatives, and thus taking a balanced view. I would be more inclined to join the “Deeney out!” mob if I felt a) they were weighing up pros and cons and, more importantly, b) if there weren’t significantly more pressing issues facing the squad (one or two new strikers, LB cover, new left wing, shipping out Grey, Success, Lazarus, Navarro et al.
Just out of interest, can you define the point, or the metrics that would need to be hit for you to consider Troy no longer able to do a job for us?
Not sure there's much certainty about that over the past couple of years. For example, the club will have had to contribute to refund payments the PL had to make to the broadcasters during Project Restart. And the reduced TV income for this year will have reduced the parachute payments which rely upon it. And that's before we get to empty stadiums, the cost of Covid safety measures etc.
How can you miss the point that spectacularly as to whine about there being much more pressing issues facing the squad, and list the very first one as 'one or two new strikers'? It can only be confirmation of trolling at this point.
