So What Should Actually Happen - Poll

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Ybotcoombes, May 15, 2020.

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What should happen

  1. Void season no winner no relegation

    82 vote(s)
    55.8%
  2. End season using a mathematical formula

    24 vote(s)
    16.3%
  3. Restart in June

    5 vote(s)
    3.4%
  4. Restart when safe , play until season is ended , worry about next season later

    33 vote(s)
    22.4%
  5. Something else

    3 vote(s)
    2.0%
  1. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    I think it can be one rule for one team and not for the others simply because of the significant points gap. It is virtually certain that Liverpool will win the league. It is not virtually certain even that Norwich will be relegated, let alone the others. Or, for that matter, who is promoted from the Championship.

    I suspect that a majority of PL clubs would not object to Liverpool being given the title. They would, however, object to relegation based on existing positions.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    brinnyboy1985 and sydney_horn like this.
  2. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    There would still odds though, however long they may be.

    No-one is really arguing against Liverpool being caught. Of course they wouldn’t. But it’s completely irrelevant as it’s possible they could have been. You can’t make that impossible here and now.
     
  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Therefore, in my opinion, that sets a dangerous precedent that I think at some point in the future would come back to haunt the PL.

    But as others have said, this season will always have an * next to it anyway. Is it even a title worth having? Liverpool fans will always have it thrown back at them if they crow about it in the future. If I were them I’d rather come out of it as ‘uncrowned winners’ and use it as motivation for next season. Waiting 30 years for a title and having it handed to you is a joke.
     
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    As I say, common sense. Liverpool are clearly going to win the league, they are 25 points clear and Man City have 30 to play for. Common sense also dictates you can’t apply the same logic to any other scenario but this one, Leeds could still easily choke again, I certainly wouldn’t bet my house against that happening.

    I don’t get why it matters so much in the case of Liverpool anyway, if they get handed the title it will be absolutely hilarious and you’re a perfect example of why. It will be forever shrouded in doubt, it’s tainted, every time a Liverpool fan talks about winning the league it will be chucked back in their face for all eternity. Giving them the title in this situation is meaningless anyway.
     
    CaveManHornet likes this.
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    If it’s meaningless, why rip up the rules of the competition to do it?
     
  6. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    If the season is off. 100% ended. I'd be ok with "naming" Liverpool champions if they were 1 point ahead. Of course its not normal - or clear they wouldnt have been caught. But at least it would be awarded for performance up until it finished, the alternative is nothing meant anything, which for me is less palatable despite setting both arguments.
     
  7. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Well, I’m a lawyer. I should agree with you about precedents...

    Your “alternative title” solution isn’t a bad one, actually. Fair play doesn’t sound enough though. “Champions-elect”?
     
    Ybotcoombes likes this.
  8. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I have to say I'm with Burnsy here. Nobody is doubting that if the season was completed then Liverpool will win the league but if they are handed the trophy without this happening it will set a precedent. Where do you draw the line if it happened again? 10 points clear, less than that? More than that? If it's the case that Liverpool are given the title then the current bottom 3 would presumably be relegated and how unfair on Bournemouth, Villa and Norwich would that be as as certainly two of them could argue they have a very good chance of getting out of it.
    Whats happened with Celtic and PSG for me is completely wrong but more so the likes of Hearts being relegated who I think are 4 points from safety but will now lose out on a bundle of new TV money.
    If we start guessing what happens in football to see who wins thing we will be no better than some referees!
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  9. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Why does it follow that the current positions determine relegation?

    None of this is specified in any rules, as I understand it. Couldn’t PL clubs vote for Liverpool to be champions, and also vote there should be no relegation? That actually strikes me as quite a likely outcome.
     
    HappyHornet24 likes this.
  10. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Can anyone explain how this precedent might apply in future? Because a precedent isn’t worth a jot if it’s based on such narrow grounds as to unusable.
     
  11. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Burnsy is the new HB1
     
  12. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    It’s not ripping up the rule book though, because there is nothing in the current rule book to legislate for his scenario. Any scenario other than completing the games as normal is not going to be covered by the current rules, voiding the league isn’t in the rules either.
     
  13. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    We’ve always been the same person. And both of us are Moog.
     
    Ybotcoombes and Cassetti's Beard like this.
  14. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    Stupid post, clearly not the angle I was coming from
     
  15. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Sorry, no. The principle of the league is that the Champions (and all placings) are decided after everyone has played the same fixtures, home and away, against all other teams. Any cut-off point before that cannot represent a level playing field.
     
    Knight GT and Carpster like this.
  16. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I dunno. Liverpool were 1/50 (I think from memory when the league stopped. Reckon you’d have got City at 50-1 to win at 1-2 in 90th minute?
     
  17. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Deliciously dripping with sarcasm, wasn’t it?
     
  18. Wexford-yellow

    Wexford-yellow Academy Graduate

    I see it reported here that Deeney is refusing to return to training until he has more answers with regard BAME players and further testing on heart and stroke scenarios caused by covid.He states he has a vulnerable child, which is fair enough as he has the right to protect his family.
    But should other players take the same stance which I'm sure is a real possibility what then, I cant see them getting the answers anytime soon.
     
  19. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    The club will probably be begging him to come back given the other options up front unless you count Sarr..

    Guess it will be interesting if anyone follows Troy's line?

    Can clubs threaten not to pay players for not playing.

    Deeney might stick to his guns even if that happened but would others..
     
  20. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    It’s difficult to see how Deeney will return in the current climate. You can understand his concerns particularly with his son. It does leave us with a hole as I was fairly optimistic that Sarr and Deeney would get us the goals to stay up, if the season restarts. Not confident anymore.
     
  21. Wexford-yellow

    Wexford-yellow Academy Graduate

    I wonder if it might not go further with other players showing the Same concerns and solidarity amongst those concerned for BAME players.
    could it spread through many teams ?
     
  22. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    I reckon we should cap the season with purchasing the remaining points.

    Clubs can pay £2,000,000 per extra point (max of what was available leftover the season). Obviously, price can be altered if need be

    I.e. Watford has 27 available points from the 9 leftover games. We can pay off the full 54 million to gain every point that could have come our way or we play a gamble in the hopes that other clubs can‘t stomach the cost of buying every point they’ve got available and we only purchase half that.

    Give it a deadline to insert the bid for points and it must be done in discretion - points will be tallied Eurovision style the following day.

    All money spent can be sent off to help clubs in lower leagues, help pay towards furloughed staff and also go towards funding the NHS

    Gives a whole new meaning to buying the league, but in this case, the money goes to something meaningful.
     
  23. Wexford-yellow

    Wexford-yellow Academy Graduate

    The only flaw with that is if we buy all our points then Leicester or some of other opponents want to buy all theirs that's six points per game.
    Otherwise it seems a perfect way to sort the season, using wealth to establish our position in the league, I'm surprised nobody has thought of that already
     
    CaveManHornet likes this.
  24. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    Thanks. I mean, I mostly thought of it as a joke and no doubt one of the geniuses on here will pick it apart as if they’re Gordon Ramsey preying on that 17 year old apprentice chef.

    To answer your point, perhaps instead, clubs can have bidding wars per match with the club they were supposed to play. Down to the owners to decide if 3 points against Burnley is really worth the £4,500,000 etc etc.

    Obviously it’s a bit unfair that some owners will have deeper pockets than others, but hey, that’s the business football is nowadays.

    Realistically, I’ve been watching too much Bargain Hunt during this lockdown and I need to get out more... Whilst staying ‘alert’ mind..
     
  25. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    I see the argument, I just think voiding the season is a more unsatisfactory outcome than measuring on overall performance at a 3/4 stage.

    The level playing field is imbalanced too, what if Villa play Spurs then Spurs spend 200m in the Jan window. Spurs then pick up form and play Watford, whereas Villa have a game against Man Utd, who rest 8 players because they have a European tie on Wednesday. You dont have laboratory conditions. Its the luck of the draw deciding whether you have favourable outcomes on these variables or not.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  26. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    This would be a major blow if the season does restart, both from a squad morale point of view and also the fact we have no-one else who can play the role he plays in holding up the ball, bringing others into play and scoring a few goals.
     
  27. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    What you say is true, of course, but what has never been explained to my satisfaction is why, if the season cannot be completed, you have to have promotion and relegation or other prize giving. What happened to Hearts yesterday was nothing short of scandalous in my view.
     
    CaveManHornet, W4BS and Burnsy like this.
  28. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Are we certain that we do? See my post #149.
     
  29. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It's not quite the same, but deciding who comes up or goes down administratively rather than for sporting reasons happened for decades between the Football League and non-league didn't it?
     
  30. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    The EU are now recommending that their citizens do not go abroad for their holidays this summer, if UEFA are going to force a finish to their competitions this season that would also cause further backlash against football.
     
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    But didn’t you read on here yesterday? It’s all a ploy from Deeney to get the season voided or have relegation taken off the table. Actually backing up his fears with actions is just part of the ruse...
     
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Given we are a family club and the efforts we put into helping the hospital next door, our club will have seen first hand the work of the virus and it’s knock-on effects to health staff etc.

    I would say there’s close to no chance that the club will put pressure on any player to return, captain or not.
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  33. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    So just field a weakened squad for these last few games whilst we battle relegation and risk financial oblivion ?
     
  34. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I thought it was financial oblivion if we didn't play. It's oblivion either way then.

    Decent movie though.
     
  35. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    But will forcing players to play bring about better results?

    Their fears may be unfounded but if they are genuine in their own minds any player that is fearful for his own or families health will not be in the right frame of mind to play imho.

    I think the best approach would be to address all the concerns, explain the minimal risks and provide as much mitigation as possible.

    If players are still unhappy and don't want to play then they have to be dropped.
     
    Burnsy likes this.

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