So What Should Actually Happen - Poll

As it stands, the rules say the bottom three get relegated. If the PL teams want to change that, they can have a vote and need 14 teams to pass the motion for no relegation. If they don't get 14 votes to change it, then it stays as it is - 3 teams down.

EXCEPT that the FA has a special vote on this one. When the PL started, the FA was given a veto over certain decisions that the 20 PL teams cannot make. One of them was that if the PL votes to relegate fewer teams, the FA can block it. And in this case, the FA has said they will block it.
They might mean exactly what they say; or it might be just a threat to make Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth anxious to carry on rather than vote down resumption. I suspect they mean it.

 

But what if nothing gets enough votes, but the season can’t be finished either?

 

I don't know if there's a specific rule. But I would have thought there would have to be a vote to end the season somehow, or else they won't be able to get on with the next one, and the PL clubs (17 of them , anyway) would vote for ending the season and relegating someone. Purely so they can start the next one and think about getting some income.

 

The FA “block” seems to be designed to stop the PL becoming a closed shop.

If there was a decision that there should be no relegation, but 3 teams could come up from the Championship, (albeit gradually to be whittled back to 20 over a couple of seasons or so), why would it object?

 

The "super" teams would block it, they have been whining for years that they already play too many games every season.

 

Have to say I agree with Simon Jordan on Deeney. If he isn’t playing now he needs to come out and say that he will not play until there is a vaccine and that he will take the salary that goes with that position. Or, alternatively if he disagrees with the medical advice and protocol that are given, he needs to state under what conditions he is prepared to play. He should have turned up for stage 1 and at least given it a chance as by doing that it may allay some of his concerns - but recognise that he may not turn up for stage 2 and 3.

 

So Aaron Ramsdale, the Bournemouth keeper who caught the virus this week, has said that similar to Mariappa he's been following rules and must have caught it from just going to the shop:
"When you know you haven't had it, and you've just been following the rules and only gone to the shop, that was obviously scary at first".

Has Troy banned all his family members from going to the shops?

 

At the moment the virus is at very low levels, but there is still a constant rolling percentage of the population getting infected, so every time they test the clubs they will likely turn up one or two with it. The risk of getting it at home or anywhere is extremely low for everyone right now, but it’s a risk that exists even just sitting at home and accepting deliveries. The questions for Troy really is that risk any higher going to non contact training with being tested twice a week? I’d hazard a guess that no it isn’t.

Any time he or his family leave the house (or accept a delivery of food or anything else) he will face a completely unknown risk, which will not be the case at the training ground.

He’s obviously got concerns about the BAME aspect of it, but realistically how much of that is due to genetic makeup vs demographics? He’s a fit wealthy man who lives in a big house with a big garden and no reason to be deprived of vitamin D, how does his risk compare to the average BAME individual?

 

His biggest risk factor is due to type II diabetes

 

I don't think Deeney would have any more concern than anyone else in going into training had it not been for his young child who had breathing difficulties when born.

This is of much greater risk for him, as he is looking out for his family, which contains a vulnerable child.

There are risks even staying at home, but the risks are greater when you're training with players and are in close contact. No matter how much screening and testing they do, it's a false security. The virus will get through and will effect players.

People are people. A group of young players will not be completely observing of the Covid-19 rules 100% of the time, every single day. People forget, have momentary lapses in concentration etc. It's bound to happen and it's in those unguarded moments where you can pick up the virus.

What has surprised me is that not too many players have followed Deeney's lead. I thought there would be a host of players, with young infant children, maybe with some health issues or other members of their family, who could be seen as vulnerable. I thought more would abstain than has been the case so far.

 

We don’t really know the specifics with his baby, it was born on 23rd Dec and came home the next day so any breathing difficulties were either very very minor at the time it was born, or actually happened later on down the line not at birth.

 

Regardless of the technicalities, Deeney has stated his child has had breathing difficulties, so that's a good enough reason for me. If you think it was a minor issue, and that maybe Deeney is somehow exaggerating the problem, that's up to you. I would certainly take someone at face value when they give reasons of this nature.

 

I don’t know if it was a minor issue or if he’s exaggerating it, and neither do you. What I do know is if the baby had breathing difficulties at birth, they were extremely minor and not in anyway related to an underlying condition, because a baby doesn’t leave the hospital within 24 hours of being born if there is even the slightest question mark over their health. I would say it’s possible for a baby to have breathing difficulties perhaps based on some sort of blockage, but for their underlying health to be absolutely fine and therefore not have any ongoing health issues to worry about. ‘At birth’ could mean later on, but again we don’t know it’s all very vague. I think staying you don’t want to play football certainly has more weight behind it when you chuck in the BAME issue and some vague concerns around your children.

 

And nor should we know as it’s none of our business.

 

I don't doubt that Deeney is entirely sincere and is genuinely worried. But his fears are illogical. If he won't play now, he shouldn't have played in January or February either.

There are over 100,000 people die each year of or with flu and/or pneumonia. That's from counting death certificates. The two are lumped together because they are hard to distinguish, and in any case pneumonia often develops from flu. And because these deaths are strongly skewed towards winter, January deaths average about 12,800 per week while May deaths average 9,400 per week.

The current death rate, over the last 2 weeks, is not a lot higher than the January norm. It's 13,600 per week over the last two weeks, which is actually less than the 13,800 in the second week of January (the worst week of all for UK deaths. Don't know why.) And yet in that time, even with the prevalence of flu and with fullgrounds and with zero testing, Deeney was willing to play.

And flu is more dangerous to children than coronavirus. So far coronavirus has killed 3 children in this country. If you add in France, spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium, USA, and South Korea, it has killed 42. Flu, on the other hand, kills average 166 children, hospital deaths only, in the UK each year.

So to repeat, I don't doubt that Deeney is sincere. But if it explained that he has already played through a far higher risk and thought nothing of it, then perhaps it might help him to reconsider.

 

Of course you’re absolutely right about that.

However my gut instinct is that if Troy’s baby had a specific health issue that put them at greater risk from Coronavirus then he would make the public aware of what it is. ‘Breathing difficulties at birth’ is enough for many people like you and HB1 to take it at face value and not wish to second guess it any further. But to me although of course the health of his child is absolutely nobodies business, at the same time given his stance I also think it’s illogical that if there was a specific health issue that he wouldn’t make it clear what it is.

 

Then yes, we are opposite ends of the scale on that issue.

His employers pay him a lot of money a week. If anyone is required to know in these circumstances, I’m sure those people do know. And they are people that will act with confidentiality and accept what Troy says. Fans and media don’t need to know and should be able to take it at face value. Certain elements of the media won’t of course because it gets viewers or gets clicks. And certain fans won’t because they see Troy as the loudmouth Watford player, who is too forthright for his own good - and they would be largely correct - but they need to be more nuanced about the specific matter at hand IMO and not just take an overarching view. I’m personally of the opinion that all Watford fans (or the vast vast majority) should be supportive and accept what he says as true, without the need for further details that are private and likely sensitive.

I would be saying different if Troy had been vocal about others going back to training etc etc but not doing it himself, ignoring others concerns but being accepting of his own. But that hasn’t happened.

 

Not that it's anyone's business, but if Deeney's kid has breathing difficulties then he/she could fall under the Governments policy on shielding which is in place until the end of June.

 

The fact the club pay him a lot of money is irrelevant, that doesn’t by proxy mean his child must have a genuine health concern they are aware of. The club are in a difficult position and have absolutely no choice but to back him regardless. I’ve said all along there will be players intolerant to being exposed to even 0.0001% of risk, that was always going to happen and it appears by coincidence one of them happens to be our Troy. I don’t have a problem with that, it doesn’t necessarily mean I agree with that t and that their perception of risk is aligned with my own though. But big salary and health problems of his child or not, the club have to back him 100% regardless.

 

Maybe the size of his wage is irrelevant - that wasn't what I was alluding to. It was that they pay him, so it is they who will want to know why he is away and the reasoning in detail.

 

Of course, but that fact that he’s mentioned concerns about BAME issues and his child puts them on a sticky wicket. If he doesn’t want to play, they kind of have to just take it at face value and support him. It would be pretty brave and foolish for them to try and do anything else really.

 

Yes but taking it at face value, or not accepting it aren’t the only options available, that’s my point.

I’m sure the reality is that he holds those concerns, has told the club the detail of them and not just given them the broad comments that the public are hearing. He has gone into detail about the BAME thing as he has said he’s asked questions and they haven’t been answered. And he shouldn’t have to go into detail about his child as it’s not anyone’s public business.

Other BAME players have returned but they may not have vulnerable people at home. And if they do, and have still returned, it’s still a matter of personal choice and situation.

 

I'm not sure why it is a matter of personal choice?

If your office reopens after lockdown, and you refuse to go in to work because you consider yourself to be at risk, is that likely to be viewed by your employer as a free exercise of personal choice?

 

The risks associated with playing football won't leave until we have a vaccine. Given TD is 32 next month does this mean it's the end of his career ? I'd be pretty disappointed if he decided to turn up to play next season in the championship when the risk of infection remains and no vaccine is yet available. I think he is overreacting and has made an artificial binary choice "What is more important, my son's health or football?" rather than accepting that 99.9% of other players are returning for their clubs and he could return and just take extra distancing precautions for a while if he's really that worried. We are in a tough position and we need him as our captain and leader in the changing rooms and on the pitch.

 

No. It’s very likely a matter for HR/liaison officers to deal with. Perhaps ‘personal choice’ was the wrong phrase to use.

 

I would say so. He’s made his choice and that is a personal one and from the club’s side it’s time to move on from him next year whichever division we might be in. Maybe he might get back up to full fitness after a 6 month break but either way it would be a short term measure so might as well draw a line under it now.

 

All 20 clubs have voted in favour of moving to stage two of the restart with contact training resuming tomorrow.

Yes, even us.

 

Can't be seen to vote against it, knowing it will pass anyway.....

 

I don’t know what Deeney brings, but he does bring something , we play better with him on the field.

I personally think he should move further back the field into midfield as he doesn’t have the pace to be a striker

 

Interesting 4 new Covid positive tests just announced. That must be a concern given we are moving to contact training