So What Should Actually Happen - Poll

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Ybotcoombes, May 15, 2020.

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What should happen

  1. Void season no winner no relegation

    82 vote(s)
    55.8%
  2. End season using a mathematical formula

    24 vote(s)
    16.3%
  3. Restart in June

    5 vote(s)
    3.4%
  4. Restart when safe , play until season is ended , worry about next season later

    33 vote(s)
    22.4%
  5. Something else

    3 vote(s)
    2.0%
  1. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    As per my post above, fans of a club don't typically expect their team to stop playing matches whenever an old club legend dies.
     
  2. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    And I didn't say Leeds fans want the season cancelled. You've assumed that and got it wrong. I suggested some have lost perspective by wanting to just play regardless of what's happening around them, and I find it surprising given one of their all-time greats was taken by the virus.
     
    Dreadnought likes this.
  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    And I've not said they do. You're debating a point that wasn't made.
     
    Dreadnought likes this.
  4. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    So just what point were you trying to make? ;)
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    It's explained above. It was pretty easily interpreted by others so its just you struggling.
     
    Dreadnought likes this.
  6. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Your post said that Leeds fans had "no self-awareness" because they wanted their club to keep "playing through the virus" despite "the virus [taking] a club legend in Norman Hunter".

    I was pointing out that I don't see how the death of Norman Hunter should have any impact on whether Leeds fans should want their club to keep playing through the virus or not. Hence, I fail to see how them wanting the club to play on despite the death of Norman Hunter has anything to do with lacking self awareness.

    What element of this am I supposed to have misunderstood exactly?
     
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I'm not spending another morning arguing with you - its your modus operandi, its well versed.

    I posted what I wanted to, worded it how I wanted and its clear its been understood. If you didn't get it, my apologies. But likewise, I couldn't care less at the same time.

    Go find someone else to bore.
     
    sydney_horn and Dreadnought like this.
  8. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    In summary:

    you are incapable of explaining how your reference to Norman Hunter is relevant.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I’m quite happy for others who have read this brief exchange to decide if that’s true or not. But I have enough confidence in them to understand the point made better than you.
     
    Optimistichornet and Dreadnought like this.
  10. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Why would an ex player dying have any relevance whatsoever on people wanting to start making steps to get life back to some semblance of normality? Again, I am speaking as a person who would just void this season but you do keep making emotional points. Your posts come across as feeling anyone wanting to make minor steps to get back on track is somehow disrespecting the victims. We can't base our decisions on hysteria.
     
  11. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    How is it a point that can deemed overly emotional?

    Not once did I allude that Leeds as a club or entire fan base should want the season cancelled or not return to a sense of normality where possible. Someone made the point about certain Liverpool fans wanting to play on regardless of whether that normality can be achieved in a reasonable time (or that’s what I took from the post...) - so my response was that I have read many Leeds fans behaving in a similar way and that I thought it was relevant that they might have had added perspective on the matter as the virus has killed one of their club legends. Nowhere did I say that it would kill their squad or fans or anything like that.

    If you, or you know who, think you know the point I was making better than me, then great! But you don’t?

    I think my posts come across as those of someone who thinks we should err on the side of caution during this and listen to concerns that clubs and players have. When I’ve read on this forum, this week, that our own player possibly is making up his fears and child’s illness then I’m really not sure it should be me that’s accused of hysteria! But if others hold the slightly opposite view to mine, then I don’t have a problem with that. I’m not trying to convince people that everyone should think like me and if they don’t they are wrong - but I will explain why I hold the views I do if prompted. If you take that as me being overly negative, I’ll live with that. But I don’t agree.
     
  12. Jack5

    Jack5 Academy Graduate

    Oh great, Burnsy vs LR is back.
     
  13. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    It's just an observation but for me your numerous posts on this subject are overly emotional and not rational. I remember when the subject of restarting the season was discussed at the start of the crisis you came up with some nonsense about a period of national mourning. As I say, what football is doing is money driven and too soon (for me), but I think your views are constantly hysterical. It really isn't helpful and I hope your views aren't reflected by the wider population or we are going to be in a depression for a very long time.
     
  14. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    Haven’t really been on opposition forums since football was suspended, but this piqued my interest so had a look on the Villa and Bournemouth sites as I guess they have the most to potentially gain or lose from the season being continued/voided. Honestly, I didn’t see anything on either site that was any different to the debates going on on here about the various options. On the Bournemouth site, many seemed to respect Deeney for his decision.
    So, no, not getting fed up with fans of other clubs “slagging the club off” as haven’t seen much evidence of it. Obviously, we never slag other clubs off though, do we?.....
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  15. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Tbf most teams fans seem to agree with some of the things our guys have been saying.

    I have only noticed Liverpool fans getting in a flap - bit of Leeds.

    And the odd Wolves fan but they hate Deeney anyway.

    Probably all a bit bitter and twisted for various reasons.

    Some of the comments aren't particularly kind either but that is football and Twitter for you.
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    A lot of that is your opinion so I respect it. Quite why I can’t be afforded the same luxury is odd though.

    But I would say just because we aren’t all dressed in black and bowing our heads, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a sense of collective mourning/grieving going on. Yes, we have to carry on with life and try and get back to normality as best we can - but it’s also not every year that 30,000+ people die from a virus in the UK - that’s a lot of families grieving. Pointing out that was going to be the case at the beginning isn’t hysteria in my eyes.

    As I’ve said above though, I have no desire to hijack the thread with another endless debate. I’m comfortable with the points I’ve made, I’m comfortable that I’ve debated them to my own satisfaction. If anyone feels the need to retort further, probably best they just put me on ignore if my thoughts trigger them.
     
  17. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Why would you suggest I should put you on ignore? I've answered 2 of your posts before this one. Stop being such a drama queen.
     
  18. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I didn’t. I suggested that if anyone has an issue with what I say, they are welcome to put me on ignore. Parts of your replies suggest you don’t like what I have said over a period of time so I was merely saying you have a function to ignore it. Saying as much doesn’t make me a drama queen. This is all born out of me saying something which I stand by and explained - one persons desire (not you) to always be right came to the surface as seemingly it often does. As I say, from the likes and replies of others to my original comment, there seems to be people who understood what I was saying, and some who don’t.

    It’s getting silly now anyway. So let’s just leave it.
     
  19. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Once the league is up and running the mods should delete all existence of this thread.
     
  20. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Watford fans do love to play the victim, too obsessed with the small club complex.
     
    Bwood_Horn and HappyHornet24 like this.
  21. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Don't worry - we'll all be back to the football talk then !
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  22. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    If, by football talk, you mean favourite cheeses then, yes, absolutely we will
     
    Cassetti's Beard and wfc4ever like this.
  23. dsr

    dsr Academy Graduate

    Actually it is. Over 100,000 die of or with flu and/or pneumonia every year.
     
    lowerrous and Jumbolina like this.
  24. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    2 more positive tests according to Sky.

    No names or clubs ATM.
     
  25. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  26. dsr

    dsr Academy Graduate

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...inggroupsinenglandregisteredbetween2015to2017

    It counts the number of times flu and pneumonia are mentioned on death certificates in England. It average 97,000 over the three years; when extended to include Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland, we're well over 100,000. They don't do stats that separate flu and pneumonia because the two are hard to discriminate., especially (I understand) as flu often turns to pneumonia when the heart isn't strong enough to clear the lungs properly.

    This is total deaths mentioned on certificates, about a third of which show flu as a primary cause and two thirds as a secondary cause - basically the latter group is where flu was the immediate cause but wouldn't have been fatal (probably) without the underlying condition. So the stats say that about a third of these cases were where flu/pneumonia was the primary cause of death and two-thirds the secondary cause. And flu, anecdotally, is suggested to be about a third to a half of these cases, pneumonia providing the rest.

    Which fits in perfectly with your sites that describe flu as being responsible for about 10,000 to 17,000 deaths annually that wouldn't have happened otherwise. (And pneumonia taking another 17,000 to 25,000.) Because just like coronavirus, flu takes an awful lot of people who were old and/or sick and hadn't got the strength or the resistance any more, as well as a much smaller number of apparently healthy younger people.
     
    lowerrous and Keighley like this.
  27. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    We have to ask if the world has gone OTT with C19, as other illnesses over the years have killed many people, but the world has not gone into economic meltdown on those occasions.

    So why this time?

    I am in the high risk section of catching C19 by the way, so I am not being callous about this.
     
  28. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Titbits like that do little to provide genuine information.

    It's 2 more positive tests from the second round of testing, which included 996 players and staff. The first round of testing had been on 748 people with 6 positives, so the second round indicates a significant drop. It could even be that the 2 new positive tests were from people that weren't included in the first round.

    The 2 tests are from individuals at 2 different clubs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tford-players-to-display-no-excuses-mentality
     
  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Have other viruses ever killed so many people in such a short period of time putting great strain on the NHS though?

    I've never been told I must stay indoors to avoid catching anything before and people generally aren't usually told to stand 2m apart , wear masks etc.

    With flu least you can get a vaccine.

    We might be winning the fight and able to start relaxing things and letting people get back to some kind of normality.

    But clearly this was a bit more than flu...
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  30. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Something else very interesting from that article is Tom Cleverley echoing the thoughts of myself and a few others on here in basically telling supposed captain fantastic Troy to be sensible and stop worrying and moaning so much:

    "Speaking before the test results were known, Cleverley said: “The odds are that the season is going to go ahead. We are going to prepare for that and we have to back ourselves. We need to adopt a no-excuses mentality and show we have no problems about continuing and proving that we do deserve to be in this league.”

    Cleverley said: “I was one of the players more comfortable with returning and now I have seen how phase one is working I feel even more comfortable. It’s well organised and it’s safe.

    “There have been a couple of players who have had doubts, and that’s fine, but I can only be positive about it. If we are going to save ourselves on the pitch we are going to need a no-excuses mentality.

    What would I tell Troy? I would say that so far in training I have come into contact with as many people as I would visiting the supermarket or going for a morning jog round my estate. I would talk him through the details, that’s all, though I appreciate we have not started contact training yet. That looks like it might be a pivotal moment. Any increase in positive tests during phase two would probably put the whole thing in jeopardy."
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
    Jumbolina likes this.
  31. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  32. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Hopefully the constant whining from our club will start to subside and we will start to get on with the task of staying in the Prem. We really are the most vocal about this, and I am concerned this will backfire through players not fully focusing on getting match fit. Footballers are well looked after and the risks of playing will be no greater than for the general public.
     
  33. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    I'm hoping it's because the progression to phase 2 of the PL restart still needs to be voted on and so we're staging one last attempt to get other clubs to vote against it, but once it's been agreed upon we'll quieten down and get on with it.

    Cleverley is basically saying the same thing as you though.
     
  34. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    wfc4ever likes this.
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Bournemouth are the club that had a player testing positive for the virus in round 2 of testing.

    Again, nothing will be done about it.

    We need another high profiler like Arteta before it will be taken seriously.
     

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