Question To Be Asked

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by hornetboy1, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    A good piece written in the WO today. I particularly liked the comment "a side with a Swiss-cheese defence and an attack that at times looked as sharp as custard.". Sums it up perfectly.

    https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/18608565.watford-list-issues-address-relegation/

    Clearly the owner and chairman have a lot to answer for, and I really hope they face the music now. They've been hiding for too long.

    We've played into the hands of many Premier League observers who just wanted Watford relegated. They will all be feasting on this for a while now. Even though we've had many bad VAR decisions go against us, we can only blame ourselves for relegation.

    This squad should never have gone down, but just could not get itself up for games often enough. Why was that?

    Why did the board stick with Gracia? Our form was on the decline, then the FA Cup final defeat which was a huge embarrassment for the club.

    Ok, I can understand keeping Gracia, as they may have been showing some loyalty to him, but it was clear to me, even in that fortuitous victory over Real Sociedad, we were under cooked at the start of the season and I thought Brighton will tear this team apart, which they duly did.

    Four games was enough to see off Gracia, but to sack him via his agent and not face-to-face or even directly on the phone, shows a complete and utter lack of respect and maybe gives an insight at how the ownership treats people or rather treats failure.

    So, who do we hire? QSF......."what the hell....why?" was my initial reaction to his appointment. That gut feeling turned out to be correct. Why did the board think Flores was the right man to take us forward? There was a reason why we sacked him in the first place. It was a disastrous appointment. What were they thinking of?

    The hiring of Pearson was a good one, as he did get the team going. I thought finally we've got someone that given time could build a really strong team. But even with him we started to go on another decline, only halted by the unexpected win over Liverpool. It was a hugely disappointing 11 match run attaining only 6 points. But we did rally and get those back-to-back victories. With only a week left on his contract and just two extremely important games to go, the club sack him, without explanation and put a rookie coach in his place, who of course failed to get anything from the games as you would expect. That decision was unfathomable, and requires explanation. Their official statement was sharp without a hint of gratitude, leaving people to think "what are bunch of ****s we really are".

    What about the recruitment? A defense that was badly in need of additional quality, was completely overlooked. Only Dawson, who has been of limited success, came in, and he's only to the level of what we already had anyway. Why did the club ignore this glaring vulnerability?

    I've been patient and have trusted the owner, but after this season, for the first time I am seriously doubting his judgement. It's like there is another person running the club over the past 12 to 18 months. What is the reason for so many bad judgement calls?

    Lots of questions......but no answers as the silence from the club is deafening.
     
  2. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    The writing was on the wall when the players went on a go slow due to the bonus issue. It's a strange culmination of all factors that has been our downfall this year. Complacency on all fronts.
     
  3. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    One big question is who will the next manager be and are they going be looking over their shoulders all the time ?

    Needs to be full focus on the season and no off field distractions.

    Be a lot of games in short periods of time so fitness is going to be key .
     
  4. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Another who want to stick the knife in......although not as much as Sutton, this just goes to show the general feeling towards the club. Everyone is delighted we've gone down. Our image has been trashed.

    'The only tears for Watford come from those who are crying with laughter at the thought that the owners believed their methods were going to work in the long term.'

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...o-pozzo-troy-deeney-latest-news-a9639246.html
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The club deserve every word written about them today, along with every knife stuck in. I hope they read every word.

    I have my doubts.
     
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    What a ridiculously sneering article. We'll have to get used to these over the next few weeks though. When you get above your station, and then don't fall back into line like we did in 99/00 and 06/07, the know it alls in the media will take any opportunity to have a pop.

    The tone of the article is a shame as he hits on some of the key problems, but the head coach changes aren't it. Blaming that for relegation makes no more sense than saying the main reason we got promoted in 15/16 was because Pozzo made three head coach changes. There's little correlation, especially when you look at the highs we hit last season.

    I think what's really shining through from Sutton and others is we came up with the tag of having had four head coaches in a season and never got rid of it. It defied all logic and blew the minds of the pundits, especially as none of the head coaches were from the usual gang in circulation. They hated it but were forced to grudgingly accept their objections to it were meaningless if it 'worked'. Anyway, as the writer of this article hints at, Norwich, Bournemouth and Villa all have very stable management in place but fat lot of good it did them.
     
    Arakel, CYHSYF, PowerJugs and 2 others like this.
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I agree, I have little sympathy for the board right now, however, this has been simmering for years the attitude towards Watford. I think it is a major reason why we get so many poor VAR decisions go against us. That can't be just down to bad luck every time. It's because we are fundamentally disliked and whoever sticks the knife in, note their name, as these will be the people who have an agenda against the club and will have in the future.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  8. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    Can we collate all the negative press in this thread? I want to hear how the club I support is total scum as much as I can please.
     
    wfcmoog and Bwood_Horn like this.
  9. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    AV survived and the other 2 will be far better placed to bounce back if they keep the bulk of their teams and the manager, a la Burnley.
    They don't seem to be full of prima donnas who saw us as a stepping stone and consider themselves too good for us. We have a lot morework to do to mount a promotion bid than either of those 2.
     
  10. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I remember we won a game v Coventry 4-0 in the Boothroyd promotion season and I don't think the match report in the telegraph had a single positive thing to say.

    Was all they just lumped it up to King and relied on set plays from Young.

    Anyway this does show where communication is key.

    If the Pozzos or Scott Duxbury said why Pearson was sacked people might go "ah fair enough"

    Ofcouse he was British as well - had it been an overseas manager would have been "he must have lost the dressing room "

    Also it did work fairly long term as we've stayed in the top flight for 5 years.

    Had we tumbled out in a season and down the leagues fair enough ..
     
  11. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    There is such a weird elitism in football, I know we’re an unfashionable nothing club but we generally punch above our weight especially when we’re a premier league club, yet most people don’t like it. They hated all the loans and borrowing from Udinese, even though it was perfectly within the rules. They hate us changing the manager more regularly as well, even though it actually got us to the premier league and kept us there in the first place. Being relegated isn’t complete failure of that system, it’s one failure amongst many successes and it’s not like football just ends here and we’ll necessarily stay a championship club for all eternity.

    It’s just quite odd most people within football have such an old fashioned view. There is a ‘right way’ to do things and any deviation from doing everything the same way as everyone else means they’ll all be gleefully queuing up to say I told you so the minute it goes wrong.

    Leeds have been out of the Premier league for what 15 years? They’ve basically ‘failed’ consistently in the way they’ve done things for 15 years but are now welcomed back with open arms. We’ve failed once in five years yet people can’t wait to get rid of us.

    The club have definitely made some big mistakes this season and have got what they deserved, yet it’s weird everyone is queuing up to gloat over it.
     
  12. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    I think that's a very telling comment. Although there have been a few articles documenting Leeds's ups and downs the last 16 years, their promotion has generally been welcomed with great joy and fanfare.
     
    wimbornet likes this.
  13. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Big club. Money. Viewing figures. Clicks.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  14. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    Anyone under the age of about 22 would not remember Leeds being a top flight club. Hopefully they come straight back down again and it will be another 16 years.
     
  15. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    You're only hope on that one is if someone comes in for Bielsa. Strikes me as someone Barcelona would like, not sure if Messi hates him or not.
     
  16. Roger Irrelevant

    Roger Irrelevant Reservist

    They will stay up. The top 6 will beat them heavily but they will have more than enough against the rest.

    As for next season it looks the weakest Championship for a very long time.
     
  17. Shakespearo

    Shakespearo Reservist

    I wonder how much of Scot Duxbury and Ginbo Pozzo's time - on a practical, day-to-day basis - has been spent on the Bushey Hall stadium plan over the last couple of years. I would suggest it was A LOT, and that hey have both badly taken their eyes off the recruitment process, leaving far too much to others.
     
  18. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    There were some quite nice articles about us doing the rounds this morning too and lots of tweets from football writers and broadcasters expressing their sympathy. I still think overall we are regarded as a decent club, most recently for the good work we did in the community during lockdown.

    However..

    We don’t make it easy for ourselves to be liked in many regards and I’m sure that if we all supported another club, we’d be looking at Watford this morning and thinking to ourselves ‘now that’s not how to manage a season or run things’

    How many of us were inundated with text messages eight days ago by friends who support other teams, asking us what on earth was going on in sacking Pearson?

    I agree with other posters here that some expression of mae culpa from on high would be nice, but share the doubts of many that it will be forthcoming.

    We’ve had a shitshow of a season where just about everything has gone wrong from start to finish. If this had been the first season of the Pozzo era, we’d all be throwing our hands up in despair and probably marching in the streets outside the stadium waving placards if such things were permitted. Fortunately it’s not. We’ve seen that they can run us much better and achieve good things. We all hold our breath now to see if lessons can be learnt and we can return to the days where things were done fairly well, or if this season is merely the start of a vicious downward slope.
     
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Well, we won't have to put up with it much longer as thankfully we will be irrelevant to all those talking heads now anyway.
     
  20. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Maybe, but I don't think that would be a distraction which could completely derail the club. Regardless, I cannot see how we would proceed with the plans for a stadium rebuild now. Having said that, if we do get off to a good start and look like being one of the favourites to go up, they may continue with the project in a planning capacity.
     
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I agree with that and they do have credit in the bank, so to speak, however, their credibility has taken a major hit this season and staying silent is only increasing bad feeling.

    I'm not too sure this can be swept under the carpet as a one-off bad season. By getting so many key decisions wrong, and continuing to make them, it has to be looked into at greater depth. There has to be a reason for it. Has something fundamental changed at the top we just do not know about? Hopefully someone like AL from The Athletic will do a piece on that and give some pointers to fans who are totally in the dark over this seasons events.
     
  22. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Be a firesale at Bournemouth, yeah, their players have a bit of fight about them, but how many of them will stay? Bournemouth are even less of a 'natural' Premier League club as us, and for all of their stability on the pitch, they're now left with massive debts, a small stadium even for the Championship, and I think still the same facilities as when they were in League 1. We may be a basket case this year, but in fairness, despite the debt, I'd say we are still in a far better position now than what we were the last time we were in the Championship
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  23. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    I'm not sure. I think club reputation is important to Pozzo. The only reason he's ignored all of the critics so far is that his methods used to work.
     
  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    If club reputation is important to him, he's had a bloody awful way of showing it in more recent months/years.
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  25. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    m8 ur use of this word implies that it ended
     
    domthehornet likes this.
  26. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    As I said before, we've been unable to regularly/consistently play anything resembling premier league football since Xmas 2018.
     
  27. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    I think he cares about club reputation abroad etc
    Seems to give no ***** about British press, pundits and supporters of other clubs- and why should he?

    I think we are going to see lots of our fans questioning him now we've been relegated, hopefully he cares about that!
     
  28. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I thought their owners were minted so losses and debt are less of an issue for them, but I may be wrong.
     
  29. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    We sacked 3 managers and were relegated.
    Naarch and Muff were also relegated.
    You could argue that Farke and Howe were too
    set in their ways and paid the price .
    What I would say is that all managers have different ways of doing things.
    Take set pieces. Some managers like zonal some prefer m2m and some a mixture.
    As the game is about fine margins being poor at set pieces like we have been
    has probably contributed to our relegation.
     
  30. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Yes, but they can only put up with sinking all their money into a club like Bournemouth for so long, there were rumours that even if they stayed up, they'd have to sell loads of their players
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  31. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    The buck of course has to stop with Gino, but there have been many things that have contributed to a disaster of a season and they’ve all culminated in our relegation.

    That said... I think there is actually an argument to be had for Gino having actually deviated from his model causing our relegation. If it wasn’t for the cup final would Javi been sacked? Did he have too much good will that helped paper over the bad run and swayed Gino away from his usual ruthless approach?

    If he’d made the decision at the end of the season they could’ve put someone else in for the start with at least some logical thinking behind it. As it was with four games gone and having made a rod for our own back with Silva we were left having to appoint an unemployed manager. The fact that ended up being QSF is still bizarre, but it wasn’t a huge pool to choose from.
     
  32. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Given that no-one is likely to be allowed in to stadiums for the foreseeable future I'm not sure that this is an issue any more.
     
  33. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I believe Denim is worth about £900m, but he has made several loans to the club and they have been in the process of trying to pay them down. It’s not an Abramovich type affair like when he first took over Chelsea. They don’t own their ground and there is much annoyance they didn’t buy it when they had the chance. They were also planning, or have started on a new training ground but there is now doubt that gets finished. Their owner is rich, but it’s not an unlimited cash/sugar daddy kind of ownership.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  34. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    I read somewhere that after they got promoted the landowner was not going to sell unless the offer was in the region of 3 times the value of the land. I don't blame them for not being held to ransom, however I don't know whether they entertained moving grounds to force the landowner's hand.
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    That’s a pricey pair of Levi’s.
     

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