Absolutely. Let’s just recall that this group have been under achieving, getting away with inexcusable dereliction of duty for a good while now. They conceded 5 goals in 18 minutes, this a disgusting record. Absolutely disgusting. First stage, as you say is cut them out, let the blood flow as painful as this will be. They need putting and casting aside. Second stage is a change in the culture at the club, top down.
I am sorry but this post absolutely beggars belief. Have you even see the number of goals they are shipping on a weekly basis. In case you are serious, be very clear that a manager at any level of the game will start by building off a defence that does not concede goals will-fully. It really is a basic.
Let's get this 100% clear. Are you saying we are losing games solely because of defensive issues & it has nothing to do with our failure to convert SOT?
I think the reason we conceded fewer last season is we were decent going forward. The greater your attacking threat, the less teams will attack you. We need to get our attacking players on the pitch from the start, and yes they do need to convert. No issue in playing 3 defensive midfielders but we need to play with width and attacking intent. We do have a threat going forward but they need to start, and not wait until we are losing and then being them on. If we are going to turn this around the players need to trust their ability. We had enough chances against Arsenal to win. If Hughes had converted against Spam, I don’t think we would have conceded twice.
The fact we are conceding on average 3 goals a game and giving no stable base to the rest of the team is the reason for this mess. If you think otherwise football is probably not the game for you.
Very good post. The Pozzos have made mistakes but everybody makes mistakes. However, the good they have done far outweighs the bad. Can they afford to take us to the next level? Possibly not but as UEA states, new owners are no guarantee of success. The players are a different matter and the fact nobody has really apologised for yesterday is shameful. I’m not up for this give the fans their money back thing for tickets, travel etc but maybe the club should offer those fans who went a free ticket for a future away game. I feel Deeney, as club captain, should come out and say something once they have a team meeting tomorrow. I know he didn’t play but it would nice to know that the whole squad know that yesterday was totally unacceptable and that the players know they let everybody down.
OK - you have shown your true nature - do not engage, do not try to be helpful but be abusive. Fine -that tells me all I need to know about you so I will not expect civility or sense from you. You lost the argument if there was one when you chose to be insulting.
The answer is that the defence has aged, has not been upgraded and there are no younger defenders competing for their spots. Holebas, Foster and Cathcart all declining with age. Prodl has been completely decommissioned and Britos pensioned off. The defensive horror shows have been there sparodically the last few seasons. This season it has all fallen off a cliff. The owners and recruitment team have been negligent and short sighted. Gomes was even given a new contract for heaven’ sake while our junior keepers stagnate.
I'm not going to mock people like Nath, I respect his opinion, even if I don't agree with it. I think Gino HAS made mistakes over the last 6-7 years BUT he has acted quickly and decisively in most situations, especially on the Manager front, which I believe has been Nath's biggest gripe over the years (and probably mine too). I think in the end most wanted Zola gone. He went. Didn't outstay his welcome like Boothroyd did under Simpson and CASHton. The Sannino situation was strange and I felt for him, but we can really moan too much as that same season ended up in our promotion to the Premier League, albeit 4 coaches in one season, we can't say Gino didn't get it right? He acted decisively and ruthlessly to ensure the club was on the right path. QSF was bought in to keep us up. Harsh on Joka? Probably, but vindicated in later years when Fulham, despite spending over £100m, were relegated without a trace mainly due to Joka's dangerous, naive and loose football at the highest level. Mazzari comes in, was this the wrong decision? Probably. Although he started strongly with a fully fit squad it tailed off significantly when injuries hit and the players decided they didn't like him anymore. Could he have gone sooner? Probably, but ultimately Gino acted swiftly to replace him. In comes Slither, great start, everyone loving life, then Neverton come in and flash the cash and he sulks and decides to down tools. His sacking was correct at the correct time. He didn't outstay his welcome (although could be argued he did as he probably should've been sacked at x-mas) and was replaced by Gracia. The club stayed up, could've replaced him that summer with someone else but stuck with him and he delivered our greatest ever season since GT in the early 80's. Gino got it right. He couldn't sack him at the end of last season because we were in a Cup Final, not even Gino is that ruthless. However, I think it's clear he was given an ultimatum in the summer to deliver a certain points tally in the opening 3-4 games otherwise he'd be gone. People are moaning about the defence, but this is the same defence that got us to a Cup Final and competing for 7th place for 90% of the season! It comes down to player power and some of the complete to$$ers that play for our club! Toxic individuals that have stamped their feet when they're unhappy which has probably resulted in our churn of managers. The recruitment team deserve praise AND abuse at the same time because we've bought in some magnificent offensive players, but NOTHING defensively at the same level! If our defence was as good as our midfield we'd comfortably be top 10 every year. Pozzo will react, as he always does, and make ruthless changes. He won't let our club fester at the bottom of the League. I expect significant investment in January (which may result in a player or two going like Doucoure or Pereyra) in our back four. We HAVE to spend £30m on 2-3 defenders so we can sort our mess out! Have faith in Gino, he's proved countless times he makes the right decisions, but I'm under no elusion he makes mistakes too. The difference is he isn't too stubborn to act and ultimately admit he made a mistake!
Blimey - you have been on he smart pills this morning too. Of course things change - did anyone ever say they do not?
So why are you fixated on what the position was 6 months ago? It’s now that matters. People are perfectly entitled to criticise the now, even if they were happy with the then.
You are entitled to that opinion. Seems a little strange the entire defence can all drop off a cliff at the same time. The overall confidence comes when the team are scoring goals, something we have done quite freely in previous seasons. It is not just solely a defensive problem IMO.
Good grief man, listen to you. You are surely a WUM. The information has been posted, go look it up. I am not your receptionist who finds and relays information you you. WUM elsewhere and do not engage with me again. Pathetic.
Is the defence an issue or not then? Because on one hand you say its the defence that got us to an FA Cup Final (which we conceded 6 in) and on the other you suggest, so innocently, that our owners will spend £30m on 2 new defenders. Which is it? Please consider we just lost 8-0 to a team in the same division.
I do not believe you. You are asking me to look for something that does not exist. Fine - admit it. We both know which if us is a WUM - and it is not me. Silly boy.
I’m afraid I don’t have much faith in Gino. The need for defensive reinforcements has been clear since the end of Gracia’s first season. In that time Pozzo has continued his budget ways. Foster, Masina, Navarro and Dawson. Wilmot is the one signing I was really pleased with but he still needs development. Dawson made sense but has been a huge disapppointment. I don’t see Pozzo learning from his shortcomings.
How is asking one question related to six months ago being "fixated" As a lawyer you know that is wrong. The point is that six months ago everybody thought the Pozzos were the best thing since sliced bread. 15 matches later they are not content the Pozzos have replaced an under-performing manager but have gone to the extreme of suggesting they are not fit to own our club. If that does not seem a ridiculous extreme to you of all people I am surprised. It is not just people criticising - I do that - it is extremism - do you think it sensible to go from loving them to hating them in such a short period? I don't but as you are not arguing with the calm and logic you use on the political threads and all around the emotions are so supercharged and RL is just WUMing - over one defeat - and not even the defeat - merely the scale of it - then I will leave it while you all boil over.
That’s not the point and you know it. Sarcasm doesn’t fit the narrative of your defence. They lost 8-0. That isn’t a run of the mill thing. It’s isn’t an ‘oh well’ type thing. It can have catastrophic consequences to confidence and attitude. Some fans are pointing that out. Your ambivalence towards that’s is frankly ridiculous.
I didn’t actually say it was my view, did I? But I don’t think it is legitimate to criticise others for taking that view now, just because it wasn’t also expressed 6 months ago. As I say, things change. And what matters is what is happening now. I would take issue with your claim that everyone thought the Pozzos were the best thing since sliced bread though. I’ve seen plenty of criticism, especially over the lack of defensive recruitment.
Absolute nonsense. “everybody thought the Pozzos were the best thing since sliced bread.” NEVER, NEVER did I think this. Do not assume this. You have a superiority complex by the sounds of things. Admit that it’s fine for people to disagree with you and that you are not always right. At the moment you are stinking this thread out.
As Bubble states, Gino will act and act quickly. He will not tolerate another Man City debacle. If we go to Wolves and get destroyed then Flores will be gone.....as quickly as that. I'm sure of it. The defence is long in the tooth. Average players have been at the club for too long. It needed a major overhaul during the summer and we all could see it. Usually the club knows best, but on this occasion fans knew better than club employees. I'm sure Gino will be deeply concerned this morning. His usual remedy of sacking and hiring a new manager works, but this time, after the alarming capitulation at City, will have him thinking he's made a huge mistake with his managerial appointment. That type of performance should not have ever happened under a new coach. Unless we have players already committed to signing for us in January, who will want to sign for a club in such disarray? It wont be all that easy to rectify as people think if we are still in the relegation zone when the transfer window opens. We need answers to very valid questions. Why did the club spend so much on a player who doesn't look first team ready? Why did they do this instead of invest in the defence? It's an extreme misjudgement of the situation, and with it being so bad, it should cost someone his job. Can we turn this around? Yes, of course there is plenty of time, but the commitment shown at City was so bad, and that was from the kick off, it would be illogical to think things would improve quickly. A new coach would naturally give players a lift. They all try that little bit harder to impress. This seems to have had the adverse effect. We were inspired against Arsenal in the second half though, but it seemed to be such a Herculean effort, which left players flat on their backs at the final whistle, it would be impossible to expect players to play at the level for many games. Only last week, Norwich showed City can be beaten. Since that time, they travelled to the Ukraine and back, yet managed to totally destroy Watford in second gear, with the luxury of a makeshift defence and no Sterling. We have major problems, which have been festering for a long time. Warning signs have been constantly ignored, and I get the feeling the situation we are in now has been a long time coming. Can we sort it out? Well I believe Gino is some sort of magician, but even his box of spells must be nearly empty now. Do I think Flores is the right guy to fix this? I wasn't convinced before his first game and had my doubts over him, and now I'm more convinced than ever that he will not be able to help us. Could we get away with sacking and appointing another new coach? Probably not, unless it is someone like Benitez. I think options to sort this mess are limited and Watford have an up hill battle to turn this disastrous season around.
It’s simply not correct to say “6 months ago everyone thought the Pozzos were the best things since sliced bread”. A cursory check of transfer threads in both of the last 2 summers will have revealed plenty of dissenting voices on transfer strategy.
I agree that is an exaggeration. However it is true that Watford fans were pretty pleased with our league and cup performances. The last two summers are irrelevant to the point I was trying to make about a specific time. I agree after our cup final defeat and losing the last few games caused the shine to go off our season and as a result dissent grew. Also dissent over transfer strategy is not the same as wishing to change owners .
stinking this thread out. No - that would be you. I asked you a civilised question and all I have had from you in response is abuse. Your one contribution to the solution of who would replace the Pozzos was a rumour of "a group from the US and the Middle East" You may as well have said Chinese or Russian or any other nationality known for billionaire football investors. You clearly do not have a clue - and seem not to care. The truth is you would get rid of owners who have taken our club from the brink of administration to 5 years respectability in the Premiership and decent cup runs in the hope that someone/ anyone would be better. I'm sorry but that does not wash with me. By the way - I expect people on a football discussion to disagree - with lots of others and engage on that basis; I cannot be accused of being always right when all I have done is ask questions on this thread. As I suspect - you are a WUM - and enjoy it.
Just abuse from you but no surprise in that as you resort to abuse when another’s opinion is diametrically opposed to yours. As I have said the time for Pozzo at Watford Football Club is quickly coming to a close. I for one welcome this time and am not scared of the change and progress that it will offer us.
If we get destroyed by Wolves then surely Gino needs to look at other reasons for the failure than the manager? If a defensively minded coach who set up our 15/16 defence up fine couldn't fix these lot then it means something else is wrong because they might not be top tier but I refuse to believe Cathcart, Kabasele, Dawson, Femenia, Janmaat, Holebas & Masina can't offer more than they do. And if they really can't Doccoure, Capoue, Hughes & Cleverley are good midfield options to nullify threats. In short, if QSF of all people can't get us to keep a clean sheet then we are utterly f**ked.
The only thing you could regard as abuse from me is my returning the insult of being called a WUM. Diametrically opposed? How? You actually do not know my opinion as I have not given it. I have asked questions - I thought that good replies might help me to form an opinion as to date I am undecided. If there really were billionaires queueing up to buy us I might like the idea - who knows? Yes you have said you want the Pozzos out - you have been very clear on that. Apart from your rumour of a ME/US group you have given no clue what you want to replace the Pozzos. Your last comment echoes that by brexiters: not scared of the change and progress that it will offer us. That means get rid of something we haveand venture into the unknown in the hope it will be better. Nope - sorry you have failed to convince me.
Here he is, he shows his true colours now! Sanctimoniously pouring scorn on others. It’s nothing like Brexit you silly silly boy. What a silly analogy to use, expected from you but silly nonetheless.
I think most people have just asked you for sensible reasoning behind the quite bold statements you’ve made. I’m not one of those arguing against your posts but I don’t see much effort being made on your part other than offsetting bold statements with little basis to them. People tend to listen to opposing views to their own when they are sensibly laid out. I have no doubt that you believe what you type - but it won’t get much traction when you fail to sensibly engage in debate.
