Great post. In fairness to some posters who are anti Gino (@Jumbolina springs to mind) they still don't want him but concede that if we go up it will be a job well done. The stick Sanchez got was incredible. An incredible amount of people saying he was the worst player they had seen! As for the highlighted bit, Dave Basset anyone. I think Xisco has been here long enough to say he's done a pretty good job and has turned a team of players who pretty much looked miserable all the time in to a side who are clearly fighting for each other and have realistic chance of automatic promotion. If we do go up I hope they give him the chance to manage us in the Premier League and the coaching badges are being sorted
What if you do your research and find this horse suits the course conditions, and you're given inside info from a trusted trainer that this horse has a good chance of winning the race (or at least coming top 2!)?
Bassett is certainly a first class example of it happening at Watford, yes. It's certainly not limited to football, though!
So are we saying Munoz faked Troy’s injury to side line him after a suitable period of reviewing the status quo, even though Ivic had just tried to drop him, or that it just happened to coincide with the end of his initial review/stick with the status quo period, and he was going to change the formation/drop Troy anyway?
The fact that Deeney hasn't been on TalkSport since he was "injured" suggests that Munoz has got him locked away in his loft.
I'm sure it wasn't easy dislodging Deeney A stranger coming into manage a team he knows nothing about Re: players loyalties I'd imagine there were those who were loyal to the captain and some who might have seen the impact he caused to the team It may have been a great achievement to get this team bonded so well with a big upheaval But he seems to be letting them play the way they want/enjoy and the players seem so much happier, I think Xisco is doing a hell of a job so far
I am guilty of forgetting this sometimes. Morecambe are into their 15th consecutive year in league two, and have only finished in the top 10 once - a 4th place finish way back in 2007. I seem to recall Ipswich spent almost 20 years in the championship before they got relegated the other year. Forest must be getting there too by now, and they are always hopeless. We do alright...
Exactly this. There can't be many clubs our size that have had a better time of it than us in the last decade. Southampton? Burnley, maybe? But there's dozens who have had nothing but mediocrity, failure, and in some cases, administration. We're pretty lucky, really.
Pointing at other clubs failure is a strawman. Gino has made plenty of very avoidable mistakes, nothing wrong with those being discussed/pointed out. Equally nothing wrong with always striving to do better in life, rather than sitting back and being happy with what you’ve got simply because someone else is worse off. Just because some bigger clubs have spent a long time in the championship doesn’t mean we can’t aspire not to? Oh well that was a stupid decision, but it’s absolutely fine because some bigger clubs have made more stupid decisions than us, so let’s just all be happy and ignore everything that could easily be improved/avoided.
You're tipping the baby out with the bathwater here... Nobody thinks that she club is immune from criticism - I think they have done a sh itty job in the last few seasons in most aspects all things considered, and have said so on here. Last season we failed where it was easier to succeed. But, as in life, it is ok to appreciate what you have while also lamenting missed opportunities. Even before the Pozzos, we had two penniless promotions to the PL and several cup semis. So, we do alright...
99% of people on this forum are more than happy to point out mistakes Gino has made, and there has been plenty. It's just some are able to step back and see the bigger picture.
As I said earlier on in the thread, the COG love in is somewhat premature, considering we don’t know what league we’re in next season yet. If we get promoted then Gino will have gone a long way to redeeming a disastrous 18 months on his part. If we don’t get promoted it will be another failure probably greater than last season all things considered. Why don’t you wait until the season is over before talking about the bigger picture?
Relegation last season must have seriously damaged Gino's pride, it must have hurt, but I think it would have been a lesson that he would have learnt from. If we do get promoted again I don't think Gino will be making the same mistakes again but I am under no illusions that some work will be done to ensure survival; if we do go straight down again it will be because of the lasting effects of the relegation in 2020 rather than a fresh set of mistakes.
Because even if we don't get promoted, we've had a successful 9 years compared to our history as a club, and to other clubs of our size. Can you honestly disagree with that? Perfect example of how Gino has changed the overall outlook of this club where a top 6 finish could be seen as an abject failure!
Yes, we’ll absolutely have some great memories which is ultimately as a fan the most important thing. But as a club in terms of where we’ll stand, aside from having a nicer looking ground, we’ll be in a worse position than when he took over. We’ve got a huge amount of debt that will need to be financed by selling all our remaining best players. We’ll have two completely useless players on our books that probably earn more in wages than our entire squad did when Gino bought the club. If we don’t go up this season, we’ll be taking a significant step back from where we are this season, which means even if we go up next season, staying up the season after will be proportionately more of a struggle than it would next. So I think it’s 9 games too early to be making any real judgements.
When you say will need to sell our best players, then compare it to pre Pozzo days, you have to remember that 'our best players' back then were Marvin Sordell and Danny Graham. One of whom we had to sell anyway (announced as we were coming out at the Den IIRC). The assets we have now are massively greater. Sarr would get you both of those X5. Heaven knows what JP is worth. The likes of Hughes, Chalobah all proven and desirable. Sierralta and Zincernagel? Kabasele? Kiko? Not to mention players on loan on the continent. We are massively better off in the Pozzo era.
This entire argument is dependent on how much debt remains after selling Sarr, Cucho, Dawson, Quina(?), Pussetto(?). I genuinely don't know, do you? *If* those sales put us back into a decent financial situation, we'd still be left with one of the best squads in the league. Added to the much improved stadium, training ground, and pitch, we'd also have a better playing squad compared to when Gino took over. So you admit the last 9 years have largely been an enjoyable, successful ride, and that's the most important thing? But Gino is a bad owner because...?
Last 9 years on the pitch yes. However if we don’t go up this year we may well be in a disastrous situation due to previous Pozzo financial decisions. We need this promotion to repair the damage in my opinion and reset the balance sheet. If we don’t go up you might need to review your big picture.
I don’t know our precise financial position no, but at the same time what we all know is that Gino has borrowed against every penny of revenue that we’re due, and what we also know is exactly what that revenue is. What we also know is exactly how much that revenue is declining by. So being relegated meant our revenue was cut by 55% + about £9m lost match day revenue due to Covid. All those players sales you listed just plugged that gap, next season our revenue drops again so we will need more sales to plug that gap. That isn’t optional, we’ve borrowed against it so we need the cash to pay it off. The season after that it drops again, and the season after that we’re back to square one, assuming we’ve been able to clear all the debt that is.
You were making some good points even if I don’t necessarily agree with them and then you mentioned a COG and immediately lost the argument
I personally don’t think so judging on the last published accounts and extrapolating them. We will know more when the latest accounts are out soon. Hopefully we romp to second spot and it’s all a moot point.
True, I suppose we're all just guessing at the moment. Until we know for sure I'm happy to judge based on what we've seen, which has been bloody great, for the most part.
Interesting reading the above discussion from mid-March. We'd just won 4-1 at Rotherham after a run of eight wins in nine games. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56329360 With the run we were on automatic promotion looked likely, but by no means a certainty - Swansea and Brentford still had games in hand and ended up winning both, so it shows how important it was for us to keep on winning, even with the numerous points they dropped.
So Luis Suarez ended up scoring 5 in 26 for Granada, and often benched for a 35 year old Roberto Soldado, and a 39 year old Jorge Molina. Not a complete disaster of a season for him and he'll probably get better, but seems like another good decision from Gino and the gang, especially by the sounds of our financial situation.
