Thing is we could get promoted this season, and this thread in a years time would look and feel the same. The horrid run in to, and humiliation in the cup final was not the end. But it was the start of the end.
The really odd thing is Ivic is entirely the type of manager we need, Pearson as an example, still bought into the Deeney hype and started him even when it was obvious Wellbeck should’ve been starting and he was supposedly a no nonsense disciplinarian type. But he doesn’t have the players for his system to work, and he’s now seemingly lost the dressing room. We’re clearly never going to sort this player power issue out, when the one manager who has attempted to grasp the nettle will get bounced out of the club.
Yep, they have to go. Absolutely shambolic. Would rather be in league two than this. Unfortunately if they stay any longer I’ll probably end up with both.
Yeah, all the goodwill he’d earned to this point is well and truly used up. You’d have to be a bit mental at this point to think Gino is the man to right the many wrongs of the last 18-24 months.
Munoz will have to prove to be an inspired stroke of genius. If he turns out to be just another chump who lasts 10 games then I think the vast majority of our fanbase will have had enough of this behaviour. I really think this time, it's really make or break with our supporters.
It’s break already. I don’t care if Munoz turns out to be a genius - given the position we’re in, to appoint a manager with 11 games under his belt in the Georgian Premier League is dangerously reckless behaviour that puts the very future of the club we love at risk. I will never back that idiot again. Unfortunately as they’ve shown with Udinese, they don’t really care destroying the soul of a club.
I agree, it is a reckless gamble. I used to think the owner was a little bit smarter than everyone else, but the last two years have proved otherwise. Surely being cheap is not his only quality, but it's a massive ask to get someone in without any experience and task him to finish in the top two. It's an extremely unrealistic expectation. I doubt he'll be able to manage that, and Gino will not stand for it, so this is why I don't think this appointment will be long lasting. I don't expect us to nosedive though, and we've got too many points in the bank to consider relegation. However if he's sacked after 10 games, then we'll only around 16 games to get promoted. Right now, I think our chances of going up have diminished dramatically. Gino has now got to be chilled about going up, as promotion has to be a long shot now, as far as I can see. Hopefully I'm widely wrong in all this though.
The Deeney statement, the sacking of Ivic after appointing him only relatively recently and now this, is all so inexplicable given the previous high regard GP was held in up until relegation , makes me wonder if there is something more concerning going on behind the scenes and in fact he is nearing the end of his reign/ control. Maybe some else is pulling the strings. Few of us take comfort from statements issued about promotion. best of the rest etc - this is normal PR. Total speculation on my part but our financial situation with such a high level of external debt unlike most other PL clubs and many in the championship (like Naarch, BMuff and Brentford) may have done for Gino. We have given security over the assets of the club to 23Capital who want out and security over TV money to Barclays. The accounts to June 20 are due out any time from now till end March and are unlikely to show anything but a poor situation. Remember the Pozzos may well have saved us from Bas but paid next to nothing to own our club. The accounts to June 19 showed they had £4m lent to the club. Their only loss would be not to get a return on an investment of a few quid. All the ground improvements and player purchases have been funded by debt and outstanding transfer instalments. All the PL revenue for 4 years to June 19 went on wages and “ other expenses”. There was no major investment by the owners own money. I hope I am wrong
I will keep banging the Pozzo out drum until the hapless idiot is out of our club. All is not right at the club - the truth will out and many of those defending Pozzo will be left with egg on their faces. Get OUT Pozzo NOW.
With the number of players going and Tinpot replacements being brought in, does this not remind anyone of the Granada sale?
I have mentioned elsewhere that they could be asset stripping the club. Obviously the Pozzo sympathisers will say they are balancing the books.... Pozzo has been funnelling money out of the club, this has been stated in the accounts. Now their cash cow has been bled dry. Coupled with brexit affects and the pandemic they are going to monetise assets, transfer out via sales to Udinese and sell up. I don’t trust them any longer, they have given me no reason to over the last couple of years. Sound bites a plenty and no tangible evidence they will act on it proactively.
I don't believe they are asset stripping, however, the word "trust" is a big thing and I can fully understand fans beginning to lose faith and trust in the owners. Two years ago that would seem unthinkable, but now I think it's entirely justifiable. It all goes down to the silence that emanates from the club. Only one interview by Gino in 9 years. That's fine when things are going well, but when things have taken a dramatic downward turn, the leaders have to be reassuring. No words from the top, nothing, zilch. This breeds resentment amongst the fanbase and it will only grow until clear indicators are revealed as to our ambition. It's all very well saying we've kept Sarr, but to be honest, the owner has boxed himself in with that one. He doesn't want to lose a chunk of money (and I don't blame him for that), and that is the only reason Sarr is still at the club. Sarr is not worth the money we spent on him (yet). Watford overpaid to get him, so do not want to make a big hit on the deal. I think it's a similar story with Hughes. He's only with us because of his injury, and clubs know Watford would probably want a fee in excess of £10m for him. No one wants to pay that for a player who has just come back from a lengthy injury. All other pointers so far in this window shout, "we're in a big financial mess". The only way out is promotion, or sell every one off. It looks as though the hierarchy have fallen between two stools. We're neither a club who will take a top two place (IMO) nor are we completely devoid of saleable assets. We all know what is required to get promotion, and although we're a decent Championship club, we don't have that quality up front in order to gain promotion. The only reason we're even in the top 6 is because of the defence. Now the defence is not really good enough for the Premier League, but it's more than good enough for the Championship. The main difference between the EPL and EFL is finishing. Watford's defence does not get punished as much in the lower league, therefore becomes stronger by default. Unfortunately the same rule does not apply to our failing strikers. They just miss more chances as a rule. The owners missed a trick by not signing Toney. They went cheap instead of being brave. They might still go up, but it's an outside bet, only achieved via the playoffs I suspect. They had the opportunity to have enabled Watford to be very strong contenders, almost certainly top two, but they didn't take that chance. What we're seeing now, is a little bit of panic and the realisation that we may not go up and they are preparing for failure rather than ensuring promotion.
So in simple terms, it seems like everything that has happened this window should be read as the Pozzo tactic being to hope we might stumble our way to promotion via the playoffs somehow with essentially no further investment or planning, and if that doesn't work , then get out in the summer having transferred as much as possible away? Certainly seems worryingly plausible based on our actions so far.
They are literally just asset-stripping now and signing 22 year old 'youth' players with famous parents as a favour to their agent mates. 2012 - 2019 was largely great (often in spite of Gino's actions) but I can't see how anyone can defend the hierarchy anymore.
As a supporter I just hope that Pozzos have a positive plan for the club. As a fan am I convinced? No but at the moment that's all I can do...hope! Looking at the bigger picture, you would think the money men would say "What if we do stumble to promotion, what then?" More of the same trying to outwit the big boys with insufficient funds? My guess, and of course that's all it is, a guess, is that a sale of the club is on the cards or a partner / new investor is brought in to provide the financial clout needed.
What they really need to do is say what the true financial situation is as quite clearly we are not in a good way if we cannot even afford a loan striker ?
As we’ve now entered February, it’s a cold reminder as to how different both life and our football club look now compared to twelve months ago. I feel it’s impossible to separate the two, and both things combine to add to the general air of gloom. It was on the last day of February a year ago that we enjoyed one of our best ever nights as a top flight club. A packed Vicarage Road, a 4-2-3-1 formation that really seemed to suit our players, and a stunning win over the unbeaten European champions. Fast forward a year. A year of unprecedented changes to all our lives, of relentless gloom and restrictions. Of matches in empty stadia. And of the team that started that night, the departures of Capoue, Doucoure, Deulofeu, plus Pereyra who played an hour of the match. From thrashing the league leaders, we’ve now declined so much that we’ve been reduced to signing free transfers who can’t get into their clubs’ starting line-ups, loan signings who end up getting re-called, or players who disappear into the under 23s. It seems hard to believe that magical night against Liverpool was this month last year, so much has changed since then and none for the better. In the end of course it counted for nothing, as our lack of balanced recruitment cost us dearly, and looks like costing us dearly again this season too. It’s all so disappointing, so preventable, and I fear in five years time we will look back on it all with huge regrets about what we’ve become and bemoan where we could have been with a little more risk and foresight.
Sarr and JP need games. Send then to Udinese on a free. After all it's all just asset shuffling within the family.
Gino Pozzo going about his usual deadline day scramble for anyone, anything with all the grace of Gary Linekar sitting down at Italia 90.
I’m in this camp now. Been sat on the fence blurry eyed by the achievements but as another window closes and we’ve done nothing to help Troy in his squad selection. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If Pozzo sells up let’s hope it’s not this sort of “investor” https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-left-club-90m-worse-off-and-loaded-with-debt
That's exactly what they're hoping for as has often been suggested since the initial window of this season. I share your concern about what their "strategy" (sic) may be when that fails.
Of course, that’s the point. But then unlike Baz, the old Burnley owners had not threatened to put the club into receivership, nor had they taken £1.5 million out of club as an unsecured loan. They like Pozzo got their club promoted to the Premier League, Now as you say they have taken all that money by selling to an investor who has mortgaged the club, which you may say they earnt. Whatever the route that owners take, it looks like all clubs end up in the same financial place - hoping to earn enough to service the debt. I can’t see any new owners doing anything different.
