Pozzo Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by RookeryLad, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    It's annoying because it feels like all the good things they've done are being thrown away. And even more so because the majority of fans on here have been proven correct about things that our owner has been unable to see.

    Everyone knew we needed to upgrade the defence, and most thought Gray and Deeney wasn't going to be good enough as striking options. Everyone knew reappointing Quique was a disastrous move.
     
    NathWFC, Chiswell, miked2006 and 3 others like this.
  2. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Reservist

    My brother and I were literally saying the same thing today. All the good they have done, in the last 2 seasons (this one included) has been undone. Going into this season was obvious we needed to strengthen at the back. Instead we sign Sarr for £30/35mil who barely got a chance to kick a ball for the first view months.

    Yes VAR has screwed us out of 7 points, so we should be on 35 points right now, literally needing one more win to stay up. However we’re not.

    We keep appointing managers that don’t fit our squad.

    It’s a shame because we all wanted to push on. However the club from the top to the bottom didn’t want to. They thought what we had would be good enough. It’s backfired big time.

    Side note if Pearson is fired, which I think is likely, I would go all out for Lee Johnson at Bristol City.
     
  3. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    It’s not just built a new stand though is it. The ground in general has massively improved alongside the training facilities. We are having a dreadful run in football terms and I agree that I think the eye has been taken off the ball a little with some of the playing staff. On the flip side of that it’s not Ginos fault the players put in zero effort or we weren’t properly prepared for the start of the season.
    I know people don’t like it when We compare previous owners with now but Elton John aside who has been better? Nobody else has kept us in the Premier League, got us to a cup final, made the ground in to at least something respectable and not the dump that it was for many years. Players and management deserve all the stick they are getting but I don’t feel the owner does
     
  4. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Academy Graduate

    It was an ‘ironic’ post. It says a lot about the extreme views on here that you believe a fan of the club would actually think this .
     
  5. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I still haven't worked out what sort of a website Popbitch is.
     
  6. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    From The Athletic:-

    "Ten rows up in the Sir Elton John Stand, just behind where the substitutes were seated, the club’s technical director Filippo Giraldi stood up, rubbed his face in exasperation and then started pacing up and down his empty row contemplating another worrying defeat."

    If relegation forces the removal of this fraud, bring it on.
     
    Bubble and Smudger like this.
  7. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    This fraud is responsible for transfer policy. Why have him and Roy ? Two expensive salaried jobs that could be done by Pearson and his contacts. He surely must have some dirt on Pozzo in order to have retained his job for so long given the **** ups he has made. Sure transfer policies at any club are never perfect but ours is a disaster for the most part under his guidance. Sensible clubs don't tolerate it so why does Gino ? Steve Walsh at Leicester was a raving success. Everton terrible. Sacked.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  8. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Roy's just a glorified player liaison isn't he?
     
  9. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    God knows what he is. :p Maybe he is one of the Pozzo chums. A job for one of the family.
     
  10. RookeryLad

    RookeryLad First Year Pro

    The Pozzo sympathisers all conveniently forget that Pozzo caused the unrest in the squad at the beginning of this season by not paying the players bonuses they were due. To this day we have not been told if this has been sorted.

    This was / is the reason players are downing tools and looking to get out.

    The buck stops at Pozzo who has personally caused this situation which has been compounded by a shambolic transfer policy that he is ultimately in charge of.
     
    Smudger likes this.
  11. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Academy Graduate

    Still awaiting some enlightenment from
    The Pozzo outers on what they would expect and consider to be a good experience in relation
    to an owner ?

    It was an ‘ironic’ post. It says a lot about the extreme views on here that you believe a fan of the club would actually think this .
     
  12. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Why don't you read the other pages on this thread? There's enough posts where the people you refer to make their views known.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  13. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I'll give it a crack. Admittedly some of these are harder to achieve than others. Consider this a pie in the sky wish list but areas where I think we are weak:

    1) Build a squad with identity. Not just a number of cogs in a player trading empire who are simply looked on (and themselves feel) as commodities.
    2) Don't have opaque "other expenses" in the accounts that run to the tens of millions higher than comparable clubs. Analyse what they are and make savings to come in line with peers.
    3) Identify weak areas of the squad and make marginal upgrades over the seasons. Don't invest it all on a winger (admittedly looks brilliant) because it's deemed he has the biggest profit upside.
    4) Don't endlessly give contract extensions to players because you can't abide losing someone for free even if they are miles past their best. Get the wages off the books.
    5) Don't just prioritise attacking players because they fit the player trading model better. It's not actually true these days anyway.
    6) Don't rack up huge external debt while leaving the club with a squad that has numerous obsolete players who cannot be sold to recoup the liabilities.
    7) Don't fill the squad with duds you can't get rid of (Success/Peneranda) while promising players remain out on loan or are sold. Give the promising players a chance.
    8) Try and identify lower league players who might make the step up. Scout the UK more effectively.
    9) Try to develop the youth team as Southampton, Everton and Leicester do.
    10) Stop having so many staff who's input is similar. Giraldi and who is this Roy fellow? Why are both needed? Maybe they are but the club are poor at communicating the setup.
    11) Make staff accountable for their mistakes. We sign Zuniga for £4m because someone messes up the paperwork. Don't just shrug and move on.
    12) Don't make the declining captain a larger than life character who can't be dropped by any manager. Put him in his place for his woeful form.
    13) Make it clear to players that the manager is more important than them, and they can be shipped out as easily as a manager can be sacked.
    14) Make downing of tools season on season unacceptable and create an environment where players don't rule the roost.
    15) Identify why the club is running up such huge external debt. Wages too high? Too many big name signings like Gray/Sarr? Too many non playing staff? Too many "other expenses"? Too many needless contract extensions to obsolete players? Analyse and act accordingly. Make marginal improvements to making the finances healthier.

    Finally build a squad that I don't look on with contempt. I feel no identity whatsoever with these players and actively resent half of them. I'd love to feel about the squad like I used to in less successful days and I don't think it's possible under Pozzo as his model is so cold itself. I'd say (6), (8), (9), (13) and (14) are challenging for any club. The rest I think we are uniquely poor compared to our peers and many other owners would do better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  14. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Academy Graduate

    I’ve read most of this thread and am still mainly none the wiser . There is a lot of stuff about what the Pozzos have done wrong .

    The question I’m asking ( and maybe it’s too philosophical for this forum) is: What exactly has been the impact of these things on your experience as a fan for you to want them out ?

    Equally what would constitute a good experience in terms of what an owner has done .

    This is why I mention all the good moments they have given me Are you saying you didn’t enjoy any of these because you were too aware of the impending doom ? And if that’s the case , what is the impending doom ? Getting relegated ? Which the

    if you haven’t enjoyed any of the good moments then to a certain degree what joy do you get from supporting Watford ? ( ie what is the point ? ) . What would an owner have to achieve for you to not want them out eventually ? Is this all about potentially getting relegated ? So they’ve made some mistakes and we may get relegated . To a certain extent., so what ? As much as I’d hate us to go down I accept it was fairly inevitable it was going to happen at some point to a club if our size anyway and does not take away from those great moments I’ve experienced .

    If an owner is putting The very future of the club at risk then I can understand why you would want them out and how that might impact on your enjoyment , but I don’t personally think that that is the case .
    I’m just interested in knowing what exactly the impact if these complaints is on people’s experiences as a fan .
     
  15. King Dev

    King Dev Squad Player

    I refuse to whine about the Pozzos. They've done an insane amount for the club. Even if we get relegated, look around at the club and the position it's in. People have short memories, we've had some terrible owners and we're very lucky with the situation we're currently in.
     
  16. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    It's crazy that there is even a thread like this on the forum.

    Before the Pozzo's took over I thought the chances of Watford ever being in the Premier League again were next to nothing and to actually get there and remain for 5 years were zilch. We're just not rich enough to compete in this market for a sustained period of time, but the Pozzo's have shown it can be done. They've done it by being smart, knowing how football works and running the club in a very shrewd way. Very few owners in the modern game, with a modest amount of money, could ever pull that off.

    Of course we all moan at times, and it's right to question things, but the some of the criticism on here is just ridiculous.

    We're sh1t right now, but we're sh1t in the Premier League. We're not at the foot of the Championship or middling in League One, as would have been the case under the previous owner. We were on a steady slope towards the bottom two leagues and we would have remained there probably for years and years had it not been for the Pozzos.
     
  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Well, we're sh1t in the Premier League for around 4 more weeks.

    Then the true colours will all come out.
     
  18. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    It's not even about us being sh*t for me, we're use to being sh*t, we've had years of practise!

    For me, it comes down to NO FIGHT whatsoever in ANY of the players!! None of them communicating or encouraging each other on the pitch, none of them showing the Paul Devlin/Paul Robinson attitude/body language to let their team mates know they need to up their game and sort their sh*t out!

    All of that is inexcusable. We can't relate to that as Watford supporters because we've ALWAYS had players that give 100% for the club!

    This bunch of losers can't even bring themselves to lift a finger!
     
  19. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Totally agree mate......recent performances have been dreadful......but they are the same players that have given such joy in the past. Remember Liverpool, remember the FA Cup semi final. It's within their abilities. I don't blame the Pozzo's for this.

    They have signed players who are good enough to stay in this league. They have proved that over the past 5 years.

    But we do need that spirit. We need players who are maybe considered unfashionable, but resolute in the mind. Who will give 100% by default. We don't have too many of those. We have some that play well when it's a nice day (but not too hot), we have some players who get up for the big occasion, we have one player who is motivated when he plays against Arsenal or Villa, but we don't have too many that are prepared to big it out at Burnley or Palace etc.

    This is what we need. Pearson is that sort of manager, but even he cannot inspire this lot right now by the looks of it.
     
  20. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    I don't think anyone could inspire this bunch of to$$ers if i'm honest mate.

    Spirit comes from within, and unfortunately none of these overpaid idiots can take inspiration from anyone if they don't have the desire or will to succeed.

    They're losers, it's that simple.
     
  21. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    I find it difficult to come up with more than a handful of players that I'd be sad to see leave.
    This is a symptom of the last 18 months performances.
     
  22. R4E

    R4E Reservist

    Did you feel this way about the squad when we were celebrating beating Wolves at Wembley last season?

    I'm going to guess no, or if you did it was certainly put on hold.

    I don't think the connection you are looking for exists in modern day football. We are who we are, and the most talented players are going to use us as a stepping stone to better things, and the less talented players are going to cling onto their paydays for as long as possible.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  23. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    If there's one good thing to come out of all this it's that the "negative" brigade on here, who predicted a horrific season and could see that nowhere near enough had been done to plug the gaping holes in our squad, have been proven completely right and should now be worshipped as vastly superior beings on this forum.

    Cheers.
     
    RookeryLad likes this.
  24. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    I think you're being overly generous here.

    We probably wouldn't even have a club under the previous owner. Watford were heading on a one-way trip to a wind-up order thanks to Bassini's antics.
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  25. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Won't happen mate. You'll be blamed and told 'you got what you wanted' and all that deflecty ******** from the clappers.
     
  26. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    It's part of the point though - great spirit against Wolves and then promptly down tools for the rest of the league games before the cup final embarrassment. The fact that they "can" do it makes it all the more infuriating.

    I'm sure a Brighton/Burnley/Bournemouth/Norwich fan feels far more connection with their squad than I do about ours. I honestly can't stand them. And I think part of it comes down to the players themselves knowing they are trading units in a big global football trading scheme.

    I think the other clubs show it is possible to build a good team spirit. It always feels like a poisonous atmosphere at Watford (or at least one that has the potential to unravel at any moment if the players don't like the cut of the manager's gib or decide the are on the beach.)
     
  27. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    We didn’t even have a negative brigade in 1880.
     
    NathWFC likes this.
  28. King Dev

    King Dev Squad Player

    Possibly. But we have financial stability and a 4 sided ground, so I'll take it.

    The club also exists, which at the moment is a terrible thing but probably good long term.
     
  29. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    It would be interesting to see where we’d be now, without the Pozzos if we were even still in the championship. I’d imagine something like coronavirus could well have been curtains for us.
     
  30. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    Could enjoy my weekends again if that was the case.
     
  31. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Do we actually have financial stability though? External debts are pretty chunky and even after selling the stars we still have a lot of players on relatively high wages for the championship (Deeney/Gray/Dawson/Capoue etc).
     
  32. King Dev

    King Dev Squad Player

    Parachute payments should cover that no? None of the old guard can be on long contracts surely. Where and when are the loans due? Correct me if I'm wrong of course...
     
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Hopefully the parachute payments will cover us but I don't think we'll be in a position to spend much even after the sales. Cathcart and Dawson have another 3 years (I think?) and are only going to decline further. Hopefully there are some relegation clauses built in.

    Not sure about term of the loans, but definitely external, not Pozzo.
     
  34. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    Surely the financial stability comes from the fact that we’re an asset to the Pozzos, so us going bankrupt isn’t a huge amount of good to them? Even if they eventually want sell (or now for that matter) surely it makes sense to get us back to the PL so they can sell that asset for a lot more?
     
  35. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I am not worthy Nath!
     
    NathWFC likes this.

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