[REPORTED] Peñaranda

He's young & can only get better. Probably.

 

But what would be the point in bringing him here to be around our squad, but not getting game time. Surely the powers that be can see the futility in that plan?

 

Quite, if we can''t get a permit he'll be off on-loan abroad again, unless we flog him of course

 

Sorry, by 'in and around' I meant that he would be in the first team squad, who knows about the team. But being a young South American who I doubt can speak English, the point would be to ease him into his surroundings whilst giving him game time where relevant to doing so. If he came, I could see him having a similar first season to Success (but hopefully with more minutes) - who coincidentally I can see having a big season under Silva now he's had a year to settle into the UK. Last season showed there is no guarantee of Penaranda going abroad and even getting a game. Given the options, I'd rather see him finally arrive at Watford this summer and getting acclimatised to things.

 

We could always send him out to our Dutch feeder club in place of Berghuis!

 

This guy was receiving rave reviews 2 years ago. I'm surprised his development hasnt been handled better since then. Last season will have done nothing for him or his value to Pozzo/ us. He really needs to be playing regularly at a decent level to mature his game. He won't be getting on the pitch for us at the moment.

 

I hope he gets a game with us next season, I've been itching to boo him for ages now.

 

I got my boos in early when watching him on TV in the final on Sunday.

Wouldnt be too fussed if the club sold him now

 

I laughed out loud at this. My colleagues are wondering what I'm doing .............

 

He'd be comfortably our best player. Hope we bring him home.

Absolute beast

 

Well that's knackered any plans we had for him this season then

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Adalberto-Penaranda-work-permit-rejected.html

 

Really is ridiculous how the top clubs can sign non HG players with zero international experience but manage to always class them under the "exceptional player" rule.

We have a legit exceptional player who would have won player of the tournament in the u20 World Cup had Venezuela won the final. Not only that you could bet anything that if he was at one of top 6 clubs in the Prem he would have had his work permit granted last year.

I hope there is a way Watford can appeal the decision and take it to a sports tribunal and take it above the FA

 

Interesting comment posted on the page of that report - I realise the credibility of most of the people on there is probably very low, but it wouldn't surprise me if this turned out to be true:

"Sunderland once applied for a work permit for Brad Freidel when he was a youngster, it was turned down by the home office. A few months later Liverpool were successful and signed him. The home secretary at the time was Micheal Howard and guess which football club he supports. It's a case of who you know, not what you know, i guess YNWA."

 

Totally agree with your main points. The prejudice against players from so called smaller countries or those not destined for the top 6 clubs is staggering. George Best or Gareth Bale would not get a look in on this criteria. This is also ironic from a country where successive governments have failed to control non-EU immigration, when an exceptional player who would light up the EPL and is proposed independently by the England manager this is the result. Although we have benefited from the loaning of young players from Chelsea, the authorities should be looking at their mass loan out of young talent every season not penalising us. Finally don't think there is anything we can do legally as this is a domestic matter and taking it to the Arbitration for Sports guys probably a complete waste of money. Feeling quite gutted by this, but sure some hard-line brexiters will see this as a major victory. COYHS!

 

Can you think of any examples in the last 18 months since the work permit rules were made significantly stricter?

I actually think what knackered Adalberto is the fact that last year he couldn't get in the Udinese team and then struggled to pin down a place in the Malaga side either. The PL also probably rightly concluded he'd be a bench player at best here given we were citing experience at a youth international level rather than full international level.

 

Utter disgrace. Both the situation and the paper.

 

I think you are probably right about how he was deployed last year. Still think the rules are completely unfair in that they support the current blocs, big clubs, big leagues and will stiffle emerging talent from smaller countries like Venezuela. it is not as if Penaranda is the only one as their u20s side recently proved. But sadly until Fifa is completely purged and the Home Office shows some ⚽ 's this will be the result. coyhs!

 

We got Isaac Success through on an 'exceptional talent' appeal last summer so it's hardly like we never have any joy with it.

The strongest counter argument is that it's not up to English football to develop emerging talent from anywhere other than England. Why should the FA, Premier League or Home Office care about Venezuelan football?

I wouldn't blame the player for feeling like Watford mismanaged him last season. We have to get the right club for him this summer or our investment is going down the tubes. He can help himself too by not falling out with his coaches and by getting back into the senior national side.

 

.....and this is the reason I'm not concerned about it. Would be a complete waste of another year of his career to bring him to the UK (unless loaned to lower league). He would not get in our team. Needs to be playing regularly in the Spanish league for at least another season before being ready for the prem.

 

I would presume he will now apply for Spanish nacionality in Spain south Americans are allowed to have dual nacionality. To qualify for nacionality you need to have lived in Spain for 2 years which he probably already has.

 

Yes like a young Venezuelan Gary Fisken/John Barnes. Which way will he go?

 

That's unlucky! Breaking it once or twice is bad but five times? Wow!

 

Fair enough, when FA coach Simpson, speaking at the tribunal, was glowing about Penaranda’s ability to make a mark in the Premier League, calling him the best player England faced in the tournament, he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

But he couldn't get in the Udinese team or the Malaga team. Just because he has the 'ability to make a mark in the Premier League' doesn't make it any more likely he'd be picked for us either.

 

Not necessarily stricter but bias, yes.

Gabriel Jesus for Man City was granted a work permit after they signed him in the summer of last year. His work permit wasn't granted initially because he had not played for the senior Brazil squad. Amazingly in September of last year after the window closed he got called up at the age of 19 4 months and 29 days old and played for Brazil 6 times. Work permit granted in January because Brazil ranks in the top 70.

Penaranda on the other hand made his debut for Venezuela at the age of 18 9 months and 22 days and has played for the senior Venezuela team 12 times, double that of Gabriel. Of those games 8 were in WC qualifiers and 3 Copa America games. He has been labeled an exceptional talent by many coaches and he lit up the u20 FIFA WC. Barca have been keeping tabs on him and it was reported again recently that Barca are still interested in signing him.

With all that being said, he can't get a WP because he comes from a nation that doesn't rank inside the top 70 on FIFA's list. The kid can't help where he is born. Why should he suffer because of his nationality, it's totally wrong.

I'm not saying he would be a starter for us but I could see Silva using him as an impact sub and cup player. Penaranda coming on with 15mins left to play against tired legs is a nightmare for any defender with his skill and pace. Pre-season with us would help develop his footballing brain and we would have a player who's stock will continue to rise.

However because he plays for Watford and not any of the top 6 clubs the FA refuse to give him a WP. It makes me so mad because it really is just unfair on him. He wants to play football in the Prem but he can't because he is Venezuelan.

 

...and that's why the FA shouldn't be in charge of anything important to do with football.

 

Does anyone know if the club can appeal against the turning down of his WP?

I'd like to think that if the club puts enough pressure on the FA, they may change their decision.

Maybe there is some way that the club can provide the FA with essentially a blueprint of what they plan to do with Penaranda if/when they bring him over. E.g prove that he'll get consistent game time at a club whether it's on loan to a Championship side or with us and that he won't be shoved on the reserves bench (i.e. Dje Dje).

If I were Scott Duxburry I would definitely take action against the rejection if it meant there was even a slight chance of them changing their minds

 

Exactly the same points I was driving at in previous posts. The nationality of the player or the corrupt Fifa world ranking should be immaterial to the assessment which should be on merit only. Do we allow/ not allow doctors into the country based on such skewed criteria or because of their clinical qualifications, knowledge and experience? All it does is favour the elite clubs. Our league does not have to develop any non-EU young players, but our youngsters rarely if ever go abroad and we should not fool ourselves that the system in the English league is dedigned to do anything but the minimum to help homegrown youngsters play for England or develop talent in the lower leagues. That is probably the biggest hypocrisy behind much of the dirt thrown at WFC but not strangely the elite clubs. Probably should laugh. Think now that Penaranda might never don the gold n' black and could easily stay in Spain. COYHS.

 

Absolutely, presumably Gino, Silva and Duxbury would have sanctioned this attempt to get him a work permit after seeing him play loads of times, and probably watched hours of videos just so they can get him over and NOT play for us as well.

They should listen to the undeniable truth and UEA who know better and saved themselves the hassle.

 

I don't see where unfair bias really comes into the Gabriel Jesus move...unless you're suggesting Man City can somehow influence international team selections? Brazil are better than Venezuela.

You're also over-simplifying the work permit rules. This blog is helpful in explaining them:

http://www.danielgeey.com/the-foreigner-debate-the-fas-new-work-permit-regulations-explained/

A WP is automatically granted if you hit the international appearance criteria. I think that's fair enough although, yes, it is a form of bias. But it's also surely fair enough to presume that, on the whole, the best players play for the better countries? There will always be exceptions which is why the system then allows for the 'exceptional talent' thing. Now rather than leave that determination down to a bunch of old corruptible FA crusties they've actually published a clear points system to tally up. The buying club being in the top 6 doesn't come into it so I'm confused about your "because he plays for Watford and not any of the top 6 clubs the FA refuse to give him a WP" comment.

As a Watford fan I'm selfish. I want us to have all the players we can, foreign, English whatever so long as they improve the squad. Peneranda would undoubtedly improve our squad. But the WP system is asking if he will benefit English football and I fail to see how he would do that as an "impact sub and cup player" (your words).

If Penaranda didn't get through the club only have themselves to blame. They chose to buy a player knowing the chances of him getting a WP were borderline at best. I expect if it hadn't been a family deal with Granada we'd have binned it off altogether. Having signed him they then basically wasted a year of his career and contrived to harm his chances of getting a WP rather than supporting them.

However they got Isaac Success through as an 'exceptional talent' so the system clearly isn't bent completely against clubs like Watford.

See the blog linked in my reply to Markoa$. We were already at the appeal stage (if the Daily Mail report is correct).

 

Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidance. Five times is just f*****g ridiculous.

 

I'd love him to come over and play. I'm excited about his potential and would be more than happy for him to be in the squad. The last 12 months are concerning though aren't they?

Plus even if he got a WP he could still be moved out on loan before August was up. A WP would of course benefit him by opening up English clubs as potential loan destinations too I believe so a bigger market to aim at. So I don't see the application as definitive proof that he's intended to be a First XI pick.

 

Christ, if someone else had made my comment you would have just ignored it. You just want to try and pick an argument with me again. My post was aimed at an opinion that it would be a total waste of time bringing him to the UK instead of leaving him in Spain another year (despite the Club and Simpson trying to get him over). That is why I quoted that post.

 

Don't flatter yourself.

 

You have got it spot on regarding the bias. If Jesus had sat on the City bench for the rest of the season would his WP have been revoked? Was Kenedy deported because neither WFC or Chelsea really used him properly? It is completely immaterial to the exceptional player assessment to cite speculation as to what clubs do with the young players after they arrive. It is not within the players control but my point is there is no sanction against big clubs 'stockpiling'. I still say the points system is biased as it favours the top guys as they go the top supermarkets. It hinders development of players in 'smaller' countries. Who is to say how much Silva would use a talented young like player like Penaranda? Methinks too much cautious QSF and WM logic still hanging around the Vic! COYHs