Nordin Amrabat

Discussion in 'Former Players Archive' started by reids, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    Nine goals in five seasons - that's not coaching and tactics that's a reflection of his ability and propensity to provide an effective attacking presence for the teams he was played for. In last five seasons Janmaat has scored 10 goals, Berghuis 27 in five seasons, Holebas 10 in last five seasons.
     
  2. Sorry MK. Your description of Amrabat's underwhelming game failed to acknowledge the fact that he he played a quality ball into Janmaat for an assist on our goal.

    Fact that you missed that particular cherry does suggest you were either watching with a subjective head on, or weren't really watching with any real intent to see what he did in the game.

    It is a biggie.

    Case in point about people seeing what they want to see I am afraid.

    Doesn't change anything, but I just want to point it out to illustrate what I have been saying about people's perceptions when it comes to Nordin, particularly those that start by saying they have nothing against him.
     
    Wooter Hornet likes this.
  3. JK HORNET

    JK HORNET Reservist

    Assuming this is meant to be me because I said i watched the whole video.

    When you say "quality ball into Janmaat" you make it sound like he's shaped or whipped the ball into him, but I assume you are referring to the 6 yard pass he played? for anybody who's interested in seeing the quality ball, skip to 8mins in the video. "Case in point about people seeing what they want to see I am afraid"

    The bit in bold is important because you shout down anybody who didn't think Amrabat was a world beater in the 1st half of the season as only seeing what they want to see due to their own perceptions and denying facts. Somehow implying that you, or people who share your opinion are the only ones who see things as they truly are? Your perception is also clouding your judgement massively, as well as you wanting to defend your claims about Amrabat being a 25mil, top 6 player. He never has been and never will be that good, even before his performances took a massive dip.

     
  4. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    wait, someone thought amrabat good enough for a top 6 side???

    NURSE!
     
  5. Sorry JK, don't know where the M came from. Obviously I can't be right all the time.

    But yeah, thanks for your post here. Makes my point completely.

    You describe what Amrabat did in the post I couldn't reply to (under Meister's new micro management regeim), and you made no mention of his assist. You could have just said something like "Sorry, don't know where the assist came from", but instead you do go on to prove my point exactly with your reply above. Too stubborn to even acknowledge your elephant in the room mistakes, presumably because to do so would support an argument you seem to detest.

    As for top six and £25million, read the thread and you'll see what I said in context, and I stand by it 100%.

    Doesn't matter if you don't read it, because I am not trying to change your mind, and never have. I'm just trying to demonstrate the quality of the rather p**s poor argument that Amrabat wasn't playing well first half of last season.

    I have asked people to consider how I saw it, by refering to the videos, you have told people he didn't do things he clearly did do, even decrying him bringing the ball into the Liverpool box, and then playing it to Janmaat, making an excellent chance which was converted to a goal. I'd rather like to know how you define quality if you don't consider that to be suffient to gain the label. If Pereyra had had a game like that in a Watford shirt you'd still be cumming in your pants, but do you know what, he hasn't once come close to such a performance. Pereyra has done far less to prove himself than Amrabat did.

    Yep. We may have some poop players, but they are nothing to some of the **** fans who mislead and rant in order to slag ofc decent players.

    If people don't rate him, fair enough. But say he wasn't playing well first half of the season, and you are showing youself up for what you are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  6. FFS. I didn't mention which league, or indeed which sport.
     
  7. JK HORNET

    JK HORNET Reservist

    Fair enough, I didn't mention the assist, however I stand by my comment completely and believe it is accurate. I watched 9 minutes of a video you suggested would undoubtedly show his quality and spent most of the time just watching Amrabat do a lot of running without much really coming from it. This was my point in the comment, that him doing lots of running without much coming from it was very representative of his entire time with us.

    You also do exactly what you complain about others doing, just on the opposite side of the argument. i.e. Refuse to acknowledge the huge number of times he losses the ball, gives away fouls, crosses past the back post/into the first man, and then go on to call a straight forward 6 yard pass a "quality ball". If you complimented his run I would've agreed and mentioned in my initial comment that he did well with dribbling in tight spaces on a few occasions, but that was just a bog standard 6 yard pass to a players feet.

    Amrabats form undoubtedly dipped after his injury, however even beforehand I didn't quite get the hype around him. I thought he was playing better, but not nearly as well as I've seen people suggesting since. His main strength was his ability to stretch the game, but he still routinely showed a lack of end product. I personally think its a case of some fans who rated him built him up too much while he was injured, mainly due to the piss poor performances we were seeing at the time.

    In terms of **** fans, I'm not sure I understand how fans having a negative opinion of a players ability (specially 1 who isn't performing) makes them **** fans?

    Pereyra has had far less time to have an impact, basically 1/4 of the time in terms of appearances. I take it you weren't at our home match to Leicester last season then? Pereyra won the game for us within the first 15 minutes and showed more quality on the ball than I've ever seen from Amrabat. In reply to your question, Pereyra's performance in the 1st half was indeed sufficient for me to give the label of "Quality"

    Also ill leave this stat here, you can take it how you want:
    Amrabat 48 apps - 0 goals - 3 assists
    Pereyra 13 apps - 2 goals - 2 assists
     
  8. Can't complain about that post at all, because you are not simply dismissing him, you accept that he played well, and you are not omitting important facts from what you are describing. I disagree with your opinion, but I have no problem with you discussing it seriously. That is all I ask of people, and you will find that I do not challenge peoples opinions, rather the unfortunate habit that many have on here of miss-stating the facts, or ignoring things that are integral to the subject they are talking about, but contradictory to the point they want to make.

    I don't believe I have ever seriously attacked someones opinion on here, even if I have stated that I disagree with it. Piss poor arguments or misleading rubbish, yes, but not opinions; it is clear that some people struggle to distinguish the difference, and seems to stem from taking offence when someone disagrees with them.

    My reason for responding to you, which I believe is made absolutely clear and you have now admitted to, is not that you think he's not up to the job (which I have repeatedly speculated is the case if he does not return to last seasons early form) but that when describing him earlier, you left out the most blatantly positive fact whilst highlighting his negatives. That is not a fair argument, and that is the point I made, extending it to the fact that people who say he's poop tend to do exactly that on a more than regular basis. I have never denied he had negatives, I have said that in his current form we need more from him, but again, to put something into context, the positives you do (grudgingly it appears) mention, that effort, that assist, that one decent cross, came against a Liverpool team that had otherwise whipped down the pants of the rest of the team and pummeled their backsides for 90 minutes.

    I stand by what I say, that if Pereyra had played like that in the Liverpool game, the Watford bards would have been writing poems of his immortality. I'm not having a go at Pereyra, and I believe he has massive potential, but he has not proven himself yet. Nice that one of his 2 assists, for Zuniga v United, came from a quality ball in from Amrabat, exactly the type of assist-assist that he gets ignored for, because its not a stat.

    I'm not glad he's gone; I think it is a shame, but I have no problem with it, because as I have been saying since he returned last season, he just has not been on the same form as he started the season, which has been very frustrating, and frankly not good enough. If people mistake that for me saying he's a worldy that we should hold onto at every cost, then it says a lot about how some people think on here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
    hornmeister and JK HORNET like this.
  9. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Interesting stat, with Pereyra last season we got 18 points, without him 22.
     
  10. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I’ve enjoyed watching this play out and reading both sides. I wasn’t a fan of Amrabat but I don’t deny his early season form last season. The question that I haven’t really seen answered conclusively by anyone though is just why some people believe that those few months were the ‘true’ Amrabat? I have stated this before but if you look at his career trajectory, he makes a move, plays well for a while, goes of the boil and then moves. He simply was average when we signed him, not terrible, not great. Certainly wasn’t a winger who made fans get on their feet every time he got the ball. Then that seemed to change at the beginning of last season - he looked like maybe, he’d settled and was showing us what he could really do - then the injury. The injury wasn’t career threatening, it wasn’t even really a substantial lay-off. Certainly not an injury you could blame a major loss of form on, like ACL surgery or anything. But when he came back, he was back to average. Could it be that he is always average, supplying little by way of assists and nothing by way of goals? That’s what I want from my wingers, and bar a small period of time, he failed to provide that. Hell, within that small period of form, he still didn’t score. Mitigating circumstances may well be that he got injured and/or injuries to Janmaat meant he couldn’t get a settled partnership down the right-side. It seems to be pretty accepted on here now that Ighalo was an average striker who had a purple patch for a season or 18 months but a big percentage of fans were happy to see him move on because many saw he was a ‘6/10 striker who had a great patch of form’ rather than a ‘top striker who had lost form’ at the end. I draw similar comparisons in situation to Amrabat in this way.

    He is someone who is simply following the pattern of his career once more. I’m not denying his form at the beginning of last season and it a bit silly for anyone to do so. He was good. Although my argument, is that in the timespan of his time here, it was a short space of time that is dovetailed by two longer periods of time that he surely gave good effort but simply didn’t do the job required of him.
     
    The uninformed likes this.
  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    See, right away I can tell that you're lying.
     
  12. I agree, pretty much in full. What I didn't want to discount was the posibility that he could return to his good form, and I felt it was worth giving him a chance. I think he has been given a chance and have no problem with how things have now panned out.

    I am disappointed it didn't work out, because I thought he was an exciting player, but that is more of an affectionate reaction; but practically I believe it is probably the right thing to do, for all parties.

    Would have liked to see him in a team where our forwards were on fire. Watching some of the videos, there are a few times, particularly with Odion, where he was putting decent balls in, and the forwards just seemed incapable of doing anything.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  13. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Good paragraph.
     
  14. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Silva not at all happy about this move at today's press conference. Described it as dangerous and says it leaves us short. Also sounded disappointed with our deadline day dealings.
     
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Bloody Silva.

    Just as the Amrabat argument was starting to die away, he makes sure it continues. I look forward to him mentioning Vydra and Forestiri in the coming weeks...
     
    JK HORNET and kVA like this.
  16. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    He's certainly not afraid to speak his mind is he? Good trait I think.
     
  17. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

  18. just saying nice things about his new home
     
    PowerJugs, hornmeister and wfc4ever like this.
  19. Simmos

    Simmos First Year Pro

    Richarlison and Carillo have done more for us in the last two games than Amrabat did in two seasons. I think the loan is a good move for everyone.
     
    Godfather likes this.
  20. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    As you may have gathered from earlier posts I played fullback albeit a long time ago .... In that time I basically came across two types of wingers, those that would look up (which was often my cue to dive in) and those that crossed blind ... despite the latter more often succeeding it was practically always the former that did the damage.

    Amrabat has many qualities but as a winger he is very much in that last category and quite frankly that won't change despite whoever is coaching him.
     
    Simmos likes this.
  21. Pob

    Pob Reservist

  22. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    Geeza got two assists as a sub which gave them (Leganes) a 3-1 win.

    I always knew he was amazing
     
  23. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

  24. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    He'll be an asset to us in the Championship I reckon.
     
  25. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Interview with him in one of Spain's national newspapers today. He says it's good news that Gracia is now manager as he likes him.

    https://elpais.com/deportes/2018/01/23/actualidad/1516733789_676797.html

    A brilliant final quote: "I don't know why I don't score many goals. It's true that I generate a lot of danger but most of the time, I prefer to see my team mates before I shoot myself. I'm not selfish"

    He omitted to add that although he sees his team mates, he either takes so many touches that they become marked or balloons the ball over their head.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  26. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    So Gracia's first move since coming here is to telephone this terd.

    God help us.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  27. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    I'm not a fan of the Bat, but it may be that the club routinely called all the loanees so as to give Javi a long list of possibles to chopse frpm before deciding who he wants to use and who he wants brought in
     
  28. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Woeful, woeful player. Flatters to deceive.

    His last 46 league games have resulted in a whopping 5 assists, 0 goals. Please, please stay in Spain, or anywhere that isn't Watford.
     
  29. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    He's actually gone 76 league appearances without a goal by my reckoning. Last time he scored a league goal appears to be for Malaga in April 2015, the day after our promotion clinching game at Brighton!
     
  30. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Wow, that is truly awful. I had only looked at this and last season!
     
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    If this was the new managers first port of call, I’m genuinely concerned.

    I’m kinda torn - as I really don’t want him back. But his answer when asked to come back shows disregard for the club who actually own him, even if I guess it is kinda loyal to stay where he is (but he’s not getting much of a game!)

    End of the day, he won’t make a difference so let him stay where he is. He won’t be seen in a Watford shirt again.
     
  32. Imagine he came back and scored. It would be a Doyley-esque moment. "I was there..."
     
  33. Leganes knocked Real Madrid out of cup yesterday on away goals. Bat played 70 minutes (during which time both Leganes goals scored) No wonder he's quite happy there.
     
  34. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    I doubt this has anything to do with Gracia - more a reflection of the club concern about the attitude of Carillo. I don't rate Amrabat at all, but I can't say he never tried.
     
  35. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Amrabat refused to come back so to speak so guess that is the end of his WFC career.

    Mind you they probably asked just after he'd help his side beat Real Madrid!
     

Share This Page