Newcastle United 1-1 Watford FC - 31/08/2019

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Pob, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player


    masochist!
     
    Jack5 likes this.
  2. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    You’re completely wrong. Gino should stop paying his team of coaches and medical staff and listen to the old soaks who watch each game smashed off their faces and those that sit at home watching on a flaky stream.
     
  3. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    "Taking back control", there.
     
  4. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    So you got SOME enjoyment ?
    I think you are going to be very disappointed in the coming seasons if you expect us to get to FA cup finals and then match the likes of Citeh. A 6-0 defeat was always more likely than a Watford win, we all knew that, even while we dreamed of a win. The first 22 mins were great !
    Having said that, I'm really disapponted that Gracia felt the need to hang onto a point rather than play Sarr, GD and Welbeck. I don't think anyone else would have picked that starting 11 or made those subs.
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    It’s not though.

    All you have done is made an excuse that you THINK may be true for every player. I appreciate you’re more a ‘glass half full’ type but I think you are applying your mindset to a set of circumstances that don’t suit your positivity.

    Deulofeu has started games this season. He rarely finishes 90 mins, that’s not a rarity just this season. And we haven’t heard of an injury in the last 2 weeks. Gracia said everyone Bar Deeney was fit.

    The theory on Sarr may hold a tiny bit of truth but it still doesn’t excuse him not getting any minutes. Gracia’s bizarre tactics and formation are a far more likely reason. If it’s going to take weeks to get Sarr involved, then realistically we should have spent the money elsewhere. The last few weeks have shown we don’t have the strength in the squad to allow a few players to settle or bed in.

    Your argument that certain players weren’t fit to play falls down easily - Gracia said everyone was fit. Therefore, everyone was fit. Not using certain players was tactical. That is literally something we can be sure of.
     
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  6. Roger Irrelevant

    Roger Irrelevant Reservist

    Hasn't Javi heard of Spotify?
     
    Burnsy and The undeniable truth like this.
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    If we play with a back 3, that really limits getting Sarr into the team. You can’t play with wingers and wing-backs.

    Gracia will have to pick one or the other.
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  8. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    Yes Pereyra was also away and he's already missed one game through injury after playing one half of football for Argentina rather than Sarrs 400+ minutes for Senegal - maybe that tells you something?

    And maybe, just maybe, Sane & Pereyra being already established at their respective club sides has a baring on them playing more than Sarr who joined 2 days before WFC's 1st league fixture?

    Like many, you don't agree with the reasons (guesses) I originally put forward and that's fine because we all see the game in different ways. There are parts of me that wishes certain players DID start or get on the pitch but they didn't. End of. But I'll be ****ed if I'm going to go over it ad infinitum.
     
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  9. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Shut up Kieren.
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  10. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    And all you've done is fit reasons as to why YOU THINK certain things do or don't happen - it's what we all do on here!!

    The formation thing also creates a huge hole in the idea of many that Gracia is rigid in his tactics. He changed things at times last season, he's already done so this - but he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

    Don't be so daft with your reasoning if Sarr isn't going to get minutes at the start of the season then he shouldn't have been bought - seriously?? If they think he's worth paying the money they did then they wanted him pretty badly. Missing half a dozen games won't change that.

    Do you really think every head coach is being 100% honest when they say everyone is fit except those who are obviously going to miss a game after having an operation? I can imagine it now, "No, most are 90 to 95% ready but some have problems. Deulofeu has an ankle problem which could flare up..." "Hmm," thinks opposition defender, "I'll have a bit of that!" Don't be so naive.

    Do you think Gracia is now going to stick rigidly to 5-3-2 or do you think he was trying something for that particular game? Maybe (and yes, I'm guessing again!) he didn't trust another midfielder to take the place of Capoue so compensated for his absence? Maybe (another guess) he set up differently because of the way United play? Maybe (another guess) he changed because we weren't all that in the previous 3 league games? Whatever the reason he got more out of that game game than the previous 3 with 2 of his preferred players (Capoue & Deeney) missing. It wasn't pretty but we got something from it, it's a start.
     
    Forzainglese, PowerJugs and Rozerhorn like this.
  11. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    Okay Boss.
    Hold on, who's stalking who now or are we following each other in ever decreasing circles until we eventually meet, embrace, melt into one another and become one entity?
     
  12. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    It was just for old time's sake. Crack on.
     
  13. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    I think I'll retire like Steve Smith did after getting his neck smashed by Archer. I'm feeling giddy by all the attention you give me and staring at a screen for something other than porn. Ta ta!
     
  14. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    All I can think of as a logical reason for the set up & tactics on Saturday is that Capoue's illness was not expected to keep him out of the game & so Javi decided to go for 5-3-2 as a desperation measure. With the personnel we have, it is crying out for 4-3-3 (if we want to be adventurous) or some variation of 4-2-3-1 when we don't...continuing with 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 will be as ill-fitting as the now-rumbled 4-2-2-2. One thing's for certain, we do not have the requisite CBs to play with 3 at the same time.
     
  15. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I'll be honest, I do look back and think we've come along way from when The Pozzo's took over. It's hard to look at the ground and players and not be reasonably impressed. Clearly it's been a poor start to the season and we didn't play well Saturday although I wonder what the reaction would have been had we gone for it in the last 20 minutes and lost 3-1. I think Gracia looked at that game after an hour and thought it was more vital not to lose than it was to win so at least we have got something to show from the opening four games. I don't agree with it but I do kind of understand it.
    I also left the Cup Final before the end, in fact probably around the same time as you as I missed the sixth goal. I was gutted having waited so long for another final only to be completely outplayed. Was it a bad day to be a Watford fan, probably yes as it was much bigger game than the one Saturday with a lot more riding on it, Europe, first trophy etc. Saturday for me was just disappointing as the game was there to be won but we took the safe option of a point rather than gambling on getting three
     
    NemoNemo likes this.
  16. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I think there may have been a fair bit of that. Not that I saw much of him, but he looked pretty unnerved in the second half. For the first time.
     
  17. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    In the Cup Final Javi made atacking changes when damage limitation was the only sensible policy. On Saturday he opted for hanging onto a point (damage limitation) when he could have made subs to enable us to go for a win. Was one the consequence of the other?
     
  18. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    It's possible that the two are linked but I just think the thought of zero points going in to the international break made him play it safe. There are games when that might not be a bad idea but Newcastle were there for the taking and that for me was worth a gamble.
     
    CleyHorn likes this.
  19. Dennis_Booth

    Dennis_Booth Reservist

    Well, I'll trust 'The Berk' more than I would you, when it comes to team selection. I'll trust the Board to deal with 'The Berk' if they feel it necessary.
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    It has nothing to do with what I THINK. It’s to do with what we know.

    Gracia said everyone was fit. So they were fit. It’s only you saying they might not have been. Me and others are disputing what you’ve said because even though you have plausible reasons, they’ve been proven false by the manager’s actual words.

    You’re clutching at straws calling me naive. And I think you know it. When players have had niggles before, Gracia has been very open about it. He said it about Doucoure before West Ham. Why would he suddenly not say so, if only to fit your point?!

    And yes. I stand by my point about Sarr. £40m is a lot of money. 6 games is nearly a 6th of a season. I’m not debating the lad’s talent or the chance he could be worth double. But I said at the time that I’d rather have spent the money on a couple of quality CB’s who would immediately come into the team. My thoughts on that haven’t changed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  21. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Tut tut; and when they hold you in such high esteem, as well.
     
  22. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes ? Yes ? Well, what do you want ?
     
  23. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    But you don't 'know' it. Sorry to shock you, but maybe Gracia lied.
     
  24. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I don't understand you.
     
  25. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I didn't mean I wanted us to move forward with a back 3. I meant starting this match with a 352, given the number of xG we were conceding and our lack of confidence.

    We matched their formation, sprung a tactical surprise and they didn't really know how to approach the match. We went ahead early, and were much more compact in defence (limiting them to chances which statistically should have led to a single goal - a huge improvement).

    When they equalised, I think we should have taken out a CB and Pereyra for Sarr and GD, moving to a deep 4-3-3. When they threw their wingbacks forward, we could counter by passing the ball into the space behind the advanced wing back.

    Using Sarr and GD's pace and trickery whilst cutting in against wing backs was a much better option than lumping it to Success and expecting him to beat Lascelles.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  26. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    So what you’re saying is that a manager who has shown little reputation for lying about his squad availability suddenly has started and therefore his word should be given less value than that of a random fan on here?

    Righto.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  27. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    TuT, TuT....you called ?
     
  28. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    Okay, you take Gracia's words as gospel, I'll be less naive. But just how do you KNOW when Javi has said someone is fit when that player has played with a knock of some sort? You don't but I'm willing to bet players in every team up & down the divisions play with minor problems not disclosed by their coach.

    Exactly, your thoughts. Just like my posts are my thoughts. We differ in opinion so let's get off the roundabout together and get on with something more worthwhile.
     
  29. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Yeah, just like Duxbury was lying about taking Watford to the next level for whatever reason, Gracia is now lying about team fitness in order to put players on the bench who will not be used.

    It's your fault for believing him and if you went, you wasted your money. ****head.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  30. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    I think you're right in the long term about the back 3. I wouldn't mind a 4-5-1 with Welbeck up top, Hughes or Deulofeu just behind. Sarr & Pereyra out wide with any combination of the 500 centre-mids behind them. Having screening centre midfielders may help the defence more than a 3rd centre back?
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  31. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    This was pretty much my experience too, apart from the penis thing. Perhaps it’s my age.
     
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I don’t take them as gospel. If he had form for being ambiguous about injuries etc then I’d agree with you but he doesn’t.

    I can understand you wanting to find reasoning behind his selections. But you seem to be providing him with excuses that he hasn’t provided himself, even when he had the opportunity to.

    When Doucoure and Pereyra has niggles last week - he said so. When Deulofeu had a slight knock at the start of the season, he said so. When Welbeck and Sarr weren’t fit to start a couple of weeks ago, he said so. His selections subsequently after saying all those things backed up what he said.

    It’s not about me blindly following what he said. It’s me looking at the trend of what he says and the actions that follow. So if he said everyone was fit this weekend, it’s very fair to believe they were.
     
  33. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Maybe he hasn't just started, but yes, he could have lied.
    I don't really know what this bit has to do with anything and I didn't say it.
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  34. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Of course you will. You're just a nice chap with a soft brain who has unconditional devotion to those in positions of authority. You'll tug your forelock and unquestioningly continue to throw your pound notes at the club.

    You're like a simple farmhand who hands over his annual harvest to his feudal lord and master, while your family starves at home.
     
  35. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    You honestly don't believe Gracia tells everyone everything every time do you? Again, we differ in our outlook.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.

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