Newcastle United 0-3 Watford FC - 25/11/2017

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Ghost of Barry Endean, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Hairyfrog

    Hairyfrog Squad Player

    That lad Vydra at Derby looks decent. Hat trick today 13 so far this season.
     
  2. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Hmmm. Maybe I will be hurling abuse at someone called Hombre Grey on Tuesday then
     
  3. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Great touch, real pace and quality finishing. 10x the player Gray is
     
    Happy bunny and wimbornet like this.
  4. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Not these days, of course. Come on you reds
     
  5. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    This exemplifies what is wrong with some so-called 'fans' today. Despite not playing that well, we comfortably won 3-0 away to the type of club we need to beat in order, first and foremost, to secure our premiership status. But it's still not enough for the likes of you who relish in finding fault and get affronted if things aren't immediately perfect.

    Gray isn't scoring many goals (yet the team are) and he did miss a couple of easy chances yesterday but it doesn't justify the vitriolic abuse thrown at him. Did he set his £18m price tag? Could he help playing for Luton at some point? Is it his fault that he is the only striking option because Deeney got himself banned and Okaka appears to have said/done something that has left him in the doghouse?

    Do you know exactly what his motivation and thinking was for cupping his ears when he did score? And who it was directed at? Of course not, but you have chosen to to take it personally. I don't know if you were at the game yesterday or not, but we were right at the top of the stand, miles from the pitch. Perhaps he was cupping his ears to encourage us to be heard above the chorus of boos from the home fans directed at their awful team, who knows? There are 101 reasons why he might have done it.

    If you were sitting next to me on Tuesday and were shouting abuse at Gray, I'd be shouting 'STFU you ****' even louder and I suspect many others would as well. To use your analogy, it's actually you who is a 'weeping sore of pus' in our fanbase if you want to make comments like this. It would far better if you and the other snowflakes supported the team and Gray, and if you can't because of your deluded sense of outrage/entitlement, then give up your tickets to someone who is on the season ticket waiting list instead.

    Me? I'll carry on supporting the team and cheering on Gray. I was there yesterday, enjoyed it hugely and am more than happy with how we are doing.


     
  6. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Reservist

    Watched soccer Saturday on the iPad in hospital having welcomed a new little girl on Friday! A great present from the Hornets.

    Another cracking away day win, we look absolutely top drawer on the road, we always have chances in us. Zeegelaar looks a great addition and it’s a relief to see that the cover/replacement for Holebas is a good egg. Delighted for Hughes to have been so patient and take his chance with both hands.

    When Chalobah returns we have massive depth in all positions bar up front, which I think will be a priority for January. Fair play to Gray for grabbing a goal, but after those two scandalous misses he lost the right to cup his ears. The second one is particular was pathetic. I like many others see the merits he brings to the system, but he can be thankful others are chipping in with goals as he must tighten up his finishing.

    Finally, fantastic run, control and cross for Richarlison for the third. A contribution to a goal every game recently, what a star.
     
  7. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Well done Moog. That's a beauty.
    Just don't forget to weigh him and throw him back.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  8. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Virtue signalling fan alert.

    Let's ignore how obviously terrible Gray is and make up some mythology about occupying defenders and creating space.

    He's a terrible footballer and we're doing fantastically well despite him.

    We can all try and show how marvellous we are by cheering the **** but Silva and Gino will be painfully aware of how he's a stark, lame duck in the side, as their transfer business in January will undoubtedly indicate.
     
    Carpster likes this.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Tbh I thought I'd jumped the shark about 4 posts ago but this has clearly still got mileage
     
    Layton and Mollyboo like this.
  10. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Liked for the creative use of italics which add gravitas
     
  11. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Reservist

    I’m confused - I typed this on my phone. Did something come out in italics?
     
  12. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Bang bang Gino's Silva hammer came down on their heads..
     
  13. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Well said MIB, totally agree.
    It’s a team sport, we get behind the team.
    Some players go through a lull in form but we encourage them thro it surely.
    Silva picks Gray, so I’ll support his judgement.

    Rich misses some sitters and what do we do - chant his name.
    Gray misses and he gets dogs abuse.
    Gray just needs some confidence and he plays the game Silva wants.
    He’s an asset to the team, and the team are doing OK.
     
  14. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    My summary of Gray is this...

    I prefer him to Deeney because of his running in channels and movement.
    He's a good finisher for tap ins and stretches near the goal line.

    He's a poor finisher and not worth 18 million when he has a chance to score and has to think about positioning, where the goal is,and technique.

    In his defence Richarlison missed some sitters a few weeks back including an open goal.

    So overall a bit hit and miss.
     
    Rozerhorn likes this.
  15. JK HORNET

    JK HORNET Reservist

    We've played better than that and lost this season so I'm happy with the fact we could've won that 4 or 5 nil yesterday.

    Zeegelar was excellent and created lots of opportunities. As far as I can remember his main criticism when we signed him was his defending so I'll watch out for that in the coming weeks.

    Was unfair on Newcastle that we were allowed to play 2 Kabasele's.

    Our usual stand out performers were a little quiet, but other players stepped up. I.e. Zeegelar, Hughes

    Hughes looks excellent and our fixtures after Tottenham next week could be perfect for him. All games where we're likely to have a high % of possession.

    Richarlison is always a nuisance. He doesn't stop running and it pays off.

    Probably an unpopular opinion, but I like Andre Gray. His 1 on 1 was appalling, but he sprung the offside trap well to get there, his hold up play has improved significantly from the start of the season, he scored and he should've had a second but Richarlison was greedy and didn't pass. We are also playing well with him in the team. We've seen from strikers like Danny Graham in the past that a bit of confidence can completely change a striker.

    Can't believe people are saying Richarlison didn't play the ball because he though Gray would miss eight. That is simply ridiculous, it was a case of him making the wrong decision which we've seen a couple of times already this season. We were also told by fans of his old team that he has a tendency to be greedy sometimes. Using this instance as a way to criticise Gray is laughable.

    We've got 2 difficult games coming up followed by 6 games which are all winnable. If we can get 10-12 points from the 6 I'll be happy. Anything we might get from United/Tottenham is just a bonus. I think we're more likely to get a point on Tuesday than next weekend
     
  16. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    We once bought a striker in 1972
    Who huffed and puffed so much
    We wondered what he could do!
    But once he got going
    We saw what he was sowing
    He played so well in every game
    He is now in our hall of fame!

    I can't think what rhymes with Jenkins but let give Gray as many games as we gave other strikers to come good!
    I don't remember Deeney, Vydra or Blissett scoring goals for fun when they started in the Team!
     
  17. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I think that's a fair assessment of Gray. He's not rubbish by any means, because his pace and work rate makes him a handful, but when it comes to composure in front of goal, he's one of the worst players I've ever seen.

    The two chances he missed, shown on MotD last night, were unbelievable. The thing is, that's his game. He plays on the shoulder of the last defender. He must be used to being in a position of 1 v 1 with the keeper. Some players you'd put your mortgage on to score in those situations, and other you just know won't score. From what I've seen, Gray falls in the latter category.

    I had to watch those chances a few times, because I like to defend players and find reasons for something they didn't do well. But on this occasion I cannot. He just doesn't have it I'm afraid. Some players can cope and instinctively know what to do, they keep cool under pressure. Gray looked like he's never been in that situation before. He looked like someone that had been plucked out of the crowd, ran onto the pitch to have a free run at goal.

    The goal he did score was a good one, but it was more instinctive. It was all about the cross from Richarlison, which was pure class. Gray was brave and put himself in where it hurts to score that, so he gets credit for that. But there's been too many mishits in front of goal. v West Ham, a lovely first touch then a total mishit, which went to Hughes to score. v Bournemouth an easy chance which he lifts over the bar. I think he did the same at Southampton as well. I'm sure there's more than that, but it's building a picture.

    From the post-match comments of Silva, he seems pretty frustrated by it as well. I wonder if the board regret the signing, and selling Vydra. Of course hindsight is wonderful, but Vydra would be perfect for the team we have today.

    Personally, I do not hate Gray, in fact I quite like some of his qualities, but honestly, we really need someone that can at least hit the target with some conviction on a regular basis. He's just not what we need if we are seriously going to think of ourselves as a top half side.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  18. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Vydra did but Blissett would have been hounded out with all those misses.
     
  19. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    He was know as Luther missit! wonder what happened to him, did he make it in football?
     
  20. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Definitely agree about his hold up play - the ball was bouncing off him in all directions at the start of the season but he's shown a pretty good first touch quite a few times over recent games. As for his finishing, it just looks like his confidence is shot. At the moment, he seems to be overthinking things, when he was through yesterday he was cutting in towards his goal, ready to finish on his right foot and then he had a terrible touch that narrowed the angle and put it onto his left and he knew he wasn't going to score. It was as though he was already thinking about how he was going to try to finish it and stopped concentrating on dribbling.

    If he gets some confidence then his overall game is good enough for him to start for us. If he doesn't, then he might turn into a flop as a goalscorer but someone who can still contribute to the team.

    With Richarlison, I agree that it's unlikely he was thinking that he had to go alone because Gray would miss but I'm not even sure he was being that selfish. The defender had put himself in a good position between Richarlison and Gray, and there was no easy pass on. Richarlison had to either cut inside and lay it off to Gray, or cut inside and shoot himself. As it happened, he overran it so we don't know what he would have done.
     
  21. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Matty was/is certainly a clinical finisher whereas Andre Gray doesn't appear to be. But he was most effective playing off a big lump of No.9 holding the ball up. Back in the day that player was Deeney. He wasn't the best at holding the ball up himself.

    So you'd need to play him with a player like that which isn't necessarily the way we're playing at the moment.
     
    Banjo and RookeryDad like this.
  22. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Squad Player

    And you were doing so well up to that point. Did you actually see any of Iggy's last few games as a starter? Whatever his faults, you couldn't fault him for lack of effort (and even his 2015/16 performances when he was at his worst didn't justify calling him a "piece of sh*t") - he actually tried to contribute more to the team, chasing back, passing, making space. He had a decent game at West Ham, scoring and missing one or two other good chances.

    I don't dislike Gray by any means, but I'm not convinced that under Silva Iggy would not be contributing something equally if not more worthwhile, in terms of setting up chances with the better attacking options around him, and even chipping in a few with the better service. A lot of key players under Mazzarri had their confidence sapped with the confusing and often overly defensive tactics, some of which have yet to fully recover.
     
  23. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    This will get laughed down I know but I read somewhere this past week that Daniel Sturridge was saying he might be in the market for a loan move to try and force his way into Southgate's thinking for the World Cup....
     
    El distraído likes this.
  24. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Now you're being silly, or actually quite sensible.
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  25. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    What? This must be the worst simile ever; neither of them have got silly moustaches.
     
  26. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

     
  27. hornetgags

    hornetgags McMuff's lovechild

    If reports are to be believed, he cost the same as Richarlison, however the addons take it up to £18m.
     
  28. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    If he did come back, he’d be on the right wing.

    The Mussolini role.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  29. Necrobutcher

    Necrobutcher Reservist

    We should try Britos in the centre forward position. How bad could he be? If it doesn't work out, it'll have been a good laugh at least, and a wonderful opportunity to criticise the club during one of the most successful periods of our entire history.
     
  30. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    You typed all that out?

    Mad keen to avoid the first nappy change!
     
    Travis Bickle likes this.
  31. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I think he was, and it is. But maybe he made the mistake of reading this forum and had seen the dog's abuse some other people are giving him. A few posts back someone was describing him as a bucket of sh*t and there's quite a lot of that sort of insulting language. OK - people may think he's a poor player (I'm not much impressed myself) but this is playground stuff. In addition, some try to justify their comments by claiming he's a homophobe - a sort of pot calling out the kettle. I wonder how many would use that language to his face.
     
  32. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Good to see Vydra scoring goals again but it is in the Championship. I very much doubt the Pozzos regret selling him as we are at a very different level now.
    As for current centre forward, it looks very much like his confidence is a bit low but to his credit, he keeps getting in right positions and doesn’t hide. I like Troy but he just simply does not get in positions to score anymore which Andre does as well as making unselfish runs. His hold up play is improving as is all round game. It might be an idea for him to talk to Luther as he took some stick for the amount of chances he missed but never let it bother him.
    As for the game, a perfect away performance. Kept calm when under pressure, defended very well, always looked likely to score and never really looked in trouble. People seem to focus how bad Newcastle are or how bad West Ham were last week or any team we beat, but maybe, just maybe, it’s not the opposition being bad but us actually being a bloody good football team.
    Can we beat Man Utd or Spurs over the coming 7 days? Too right we can, not saying we will but we have enough quality now to worry the big teams.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
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  33. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Although it's true he was often played out of position on the wing, Troy started his Watford career with just 3 goals in 20 matches. No clues during that miserly run that he'd go on to become a 100 goal scorer for us.

    It took Odion six games to get off the mark for us. In fact his first goal for us was a rebound from a penalty he missed. No clues during those first few matches that he'd become a prolific striker helping us win promotion and then stay up.

    So it's possible Gray may follow the starts both those players made to their Watford careers. Equally I guess he could become another Ellington.

    Strikers more than any other position need confidence, and although it was totally understandable why Troy was preferred at the Hawthorns it felt a little harsh on Gray to be benched the match after he got his debut goal for us.

    I also think he missed a trick by not offering to take the penalty at Goodison. A hungry for goals striker who took pens at his previous club should be snatching the ball off any teammate..

    I'm struggling to think of a season like this one since I've supported us where we are scoring so many goals with so few them coming from our out-and-out forwards. We're the 4th highest scorers in the division I think, having netted more times than the like of Spurs. 22 goals yet only 3 have been scored by Deeney-Okaka-Gray (not including Troy's penalty). We have the goal-scoring midfield now QSF must have craved when it seemed as if only Deeney or Ighalo could score that season!
     
    Teide1 likes this.
  34. JK HORNET

    JK HORNET Reservist


    I agree completely. He missed the first chance on his left and then the second chance was perfect for a left foot shot across goal, but he tried taking it with his right and just passed it down the middle. It's like the chance before was still playing on his mind and he didn't want to use his left foot again. If his finishing comes with confidence he could be very good for us.

    That's fair enough regarding Richarlison as well. I don't mind that he didn't play Gray in too much (be it selfishness or overrunning the ball) , because I understand he's still young and raw so we have to take the rough with the smooth. Just can't believe it's being used as a way to dig Gray out.
     
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  35. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Yes. The quality of football (not necessarily the entertainment) is probably better across the board these days and this current Watford team look very exciting and promising. But, in that season, Watford arrived and were playing a sort of football no-one else was attempting - two out and out wingers and two out and out centre forwards. They tore into teams and scored shed -loads of goals. And add to that we had been in the Fourth Division only six years previously. The only team that ended above us were the reigning European Champions - Liverpool. Yes, an amazing season.
     

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