Millwall & Wham Show Themselves Up - Again

Hmmm... what is this "literal definition of political organisation" of which you speak?

 

Let’s face it some fans don’t need the excuse of whether it’s a political party or not and that’s why there is a Black Lives Matter movement.

 

I thought any POLITICAL images etc. are not allowed in football, did not England get censured for wanting to wear "The Poppy" which is in no way political? Therefore if one of the BLM's own spokesmen has said they are proud to be known as a "Political Organisation" Taking the knee should not be allowed, as ergo it is a political gesture.

 

I'm not sure what happens on the planet you're on but you may not have noticed the poppies that appear on all club shirts during the remembrance period. We even did a giant foil display in the Rookery which I also assume you missed. Also allowed are gestures that you don't agree with - like taking the knee.

The England incident you reference was due to a FIFA rule which was changed over three years ago as it was wrong. Something else you've obviously missed.

 

Yeah, but we're not allowed to celebrate Xmas these days in case it upsets someone. I said as much to my Aunt last year over Xmas dinner.

 

Bet that went well!

 

See the post above yours that's the planet I was referring too!!! As to the Poppy incident as you acknowledge it did happen, even if it has now been rectified.

However, Lemara Francis quoted above freely admits that they are a political organisation as far as they are concerned, even though they have no plans to set up a political party, hence taking the knee should be considered a political gesture. By the way who said I do not agree with it, I know that I didn't.

I'm just pointing out a fact!

 

You're quite right, the laws of football ban players from displaying 'political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images' on any part of their kit. The corrupt dim-wits at FIFA did try to stop the wearing of poppies on shirts under this law a few years back but dropped the ban when their massive ignorance was explained to them. Presumably it's the same FIFA idiots that are allowing the addition of the BLM logo to kit and giving players the green light to show their allegiance to BLM by kneeling, to go unpunished - despite the fact that as you again correctly point out, BLM is clearly a political organsation

 

Well do you agree with it? This is your safe place to speak your mind.

 

I'm not sure if you are just oblivious or deliberately belligerent but poppies on club shirts isn't a problem and is done happily every year. Which is why in 2014 we all held up a foil display at Vicarage Road.

So, even if you view taking the knee as a political gesture, making it comparable to displaying poppies on a club shirt means it's absolutely fine.

 

You are asking me what planet I am on, but you seem oblivious to the fact that I have acknowledged that it is now deemed acceptable even by the idiots at FIFA to display poppies at football and on shirts etc. Mainly because they have accepted that the poppy is NOT a political emblem.

However you seem incapable of acknowledging the fact that a BLM spokesman, one Lamara Francis said and I quote as shown in #42 of this thread "BLM is proud to be a political organisation" Ergo anything connected with them should be considered political, would you not agree?

Therefore, anything to do with BLM as it is political should not be allowed to be connected to football according to FIFA RULES!!!

 

The FIFA rule change has nothing to do with club level football, as I've previously mentioned, we've had poppies on shirts for as long as I can remember but you are either too stupid or don't wish to acknowledge that.

I don't believe that players unanimously taking the knee to be connected to any political organisation so as I fully support the fight against racial injustice, I support them doing it 100%.

 

Despite maybe some initial confusion and overlap, hasn’t it been clearly stated many times by clubs, the premier league etc etc, that taking the knee is not in support of BLM the ‘political organisation’ but simply against racism and inequality?

So what does it matter if BLM is a political organisation or not? Footballers aren’t taking the knee in support of them?

 

Can't say I'm surprised. Millwall and Spammers are stupid enough to do overt racism, but there's many, many amongst yer regular middle class boojees who are racist as racist as yer like.

While you might get shouted at or physically attacked by an overt Millwall-type racist, it doesn't really hurt for long. The lasting and really damaging racism is done by the middle class boss who doesn't give you a job or the landlord who won't rent to you.

 

You are wrong Clive. As we all know the Tories abolished racism and all that stuff just happened in the past. If right wing Britain had any racism in it the Daily Mail and Express would tell us about it.

Anyone going on about it now is simply making it up for the sake of causing trouble.

 

Have you noticed the similarities to the old Southern USA slavery days and their reasoning for persecuting any blacks who spoke up or tried to organise?

They're upsetting the peace! They're trouble makers! Trying to cause discontent amongst the va-a-a-a-st majority who are all perfectly happy slaves....

 

Perhaps the 'initial confusion' that clubs and players were supporting BLM was caused by, among other things, the decision to remove players' names from the back of their shirts and replace with 'Black Lives Matter'!

 

I assume you meant to type 'football supporters'?

 

I think anybody with a modicum of common sense and a desire to view the situation objectively can make the distinction between BLM the phrase and BLM the ‘political organisation‘.

George Floyd happened and the understandable outrage and fallout ensued. For the vast majority of normal folk like myself they’d never heard of BLM the political organisation, that may be ignorant but it’s a fact.

The majority of people posting BLM on their social media etc, meant it literally, Black Lives Matter.

If the club themselves have said prior to the fans booing, they aren’t doing it in support of the political organisation but simply for racism and inequality, are they telling lies? Or are people being deliberately obtuse to suit their own agendas by refusing to acknowledge that BLM doesn’t have to mean BLM the organisation?

 

For the avoidance of doubt, this is the clubs statement BEFORE the game happened:

https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/2020/december/first-team-squad-release-statement/

“We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout”

 

See post 6 of this thread

 

See post 9 of this thread

 

??
Yes post 9, so we should ignore racism because an organisation with questionable elements are also against racism?

The situation you describe in your post is not wrong, but people can either choose to understand that situation and see that ultimately it’s about highlighting and eradicating inequality and racism, or they can ignore it and insist that it’s in direct support of the BLM organisation.

If it’s the latter, my opinion is that it’s people being deliberately obtuse and hiding behind an unnecessarily literal mindset to suit a racist agenda.

Taking the knee is not a BLM trademark. NFL players did it completely of their own volition back in 2016.

 

Let’s face it, there is no form of black protest that doesn’t freak some white or asian people out.

One thing you can say though is that the counter blast against BLM has worked and far too many people see it as a threat, rather than an opportunity to fight discrimination on all fronts. As you know from your volunteering, there are a staggering number of people using foodbanks right now and in the UK lots of them are white. They have nothing to gain from a system that empowers one group of the rich against them, yet many can be rallied to oppose BLM.

Classic divide and rule. Footballers black and white have done a good job of showing unity.

 

Millwall players will be linking arms rather than taking the knee at their match tonight. Pandering to the racists or a sensible alternative aimed at diffusing the situation? I think the latter, but I only hope the knuckle-draggers see it that way and don't boo.

 

Demba Ba was called 'that black guy' by the 4th official & rightly calls him out on it. Both teams walk off. Meanwhile QPR players take the knee in front of Millwall fans at The Den after they score.

Now that is anti-racism in action!

 

The 4th official was just being 'anti-marxist'.

 

Vicar of Dibly outrage! Thousands of livid complaints pour in to the BBC about an episode that hasn't even aired yet. It is "disgusting" it is "abysmal" it is "awful".

While I would normally agree wholeheartedly with those sentiments, I can't help worrying that the complaints might NOT relate to the twee, middle class and desperately unfunny nature of the show, but rather to the fact it apparently features black lives matter in one segment. Is nothing sacred? That bit where she jumps in a deep puddle is funnier even than Del Boy falling through the bar. So great they show it over and over and over and over again on the "news". I slap my thigh everytime I see it.

The wife of an old couple I went to the other day told me (apropos of nothing) that it was "ridiculous" that footballers were taking the knee before matches, because blacks STAB people. They do y'know! Ridiculous! Etc etc.

I said "hmmmm" and just carried on working. But it reminded me of the sort of quality of the argument put up by those opposed to black civil rights.

 

A lot of hysterical anti-BBC types getting VERY worked up about pretend vicar programme. Presumably they thought 'Citizen Smith' a pro-marxist documentary.

I'm not anti-Black just anti-bias they cry. I see, so that's why you just happen to complain about everything that mentions black people, their history and their situation? I mean will someone for once mention the World Wars and the World Cup?

What really boils my piss about these types who complain that anything featuring black people, or gay people, or visibly disabled people is 'woke' or some such gibberish, is that they ignore that there are licence fee payers of many different backgrounds all of whom are entitled to programming that reflects their lives. Wah, they're shoving down my throat! No, not everyone is like you.

 

In a clumsy way she was probably just expressing her sadness at the number of young black males stabbed on our streets - but, of course, as a committed Labour Party man, you naturally assumed that being working class this woman was a poorly educated, small-mind, bigot who refuses to see the economic and cultural benefits of globalisation and was therefore almost certainly making a dim-witted and racist point.

Agree re Vicar of Dibley though - the most loathsome show on TV, or it was until Michael MacIntyre got his own series

 

No, not working class. Not like super rich, but midde class Daily Mailers. The old boy who I'm there to look after is fine. Quite bad dementia, but he does as he's told. I have to get him showered and change his clothes, give him a shave and brush his teeth etc. According to the care plan, he's supposedly 'reluctant' to do any of those thing. I do my "right shower time" come along , whirlwind, let's go, trousers off, shirt off, "is that warm enough? In you go then.." before he's had time to object. I don't ask him if he'd like a shower, I tell him he's having one. Only language they understand these idle classers.

Finally I have to do them tea and what the lady of the house called "brunch". It turned out to be poached eggs on toast. It was while she was noshing her grub that she suddenly decided to wave her fork at me and share her thoughts about footballers taking the knee.

By the tone of her voice, I can say with confidence that she definitely was NOT expressing any sorrow or sympathy for black people. Quite the reverse.

 

The number of stabbings between young black people is an endless source of crocodile tears for some. If you don’t believe me just look at Sadiq Khan’s Twitter.