Manchester Utd 1-0 Watford - 13/05/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by SkylaRose, May 9, 2018.

  1. ITKJim

    ITKJim Reservist

    You really are an absolute simpleton aren't you.
     
  2. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Doucoure somewhat overrated, there I said it.
     
  3. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I was much more confident last summer. The indications were that we we would heavily strengthen (which we did). Prodl, Holebas and Britos seemed premier standard players and I still hoped Deeney would slim down and be the captain he had been in the past.

    Those 4 players are now complete deadwood and some of them will be hard to shift.

    Gracia isn’t the same calibre as Silva (imo).

    Giraldi talks of a quiet summer.

    To me we will be a live contender for the drop next year.
     
    Burnsy and Heidar like this.
  4. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Can see us selling a lot of players, including some for big money though. We have such an oversized squad, we've hardly sold anyone over the last two seasons, even getting rid if the deadwood will go much of the way to funding a few decent players, and that's if we keep a hold of Doucoure
     
  5. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I'm for giving Ravi a go, because as someone said earlier although we have not scored in several away games we have at least created the chances to do so and our performances have actually been pretty good; what do you expect the manager to do, run on the pitch and nod the ball in the net or clear it off our own goal line?

    IMO the teams performances have definitely improved under Garcia, and considering he had to work with the players he inherited and a monstous injury list to boot, he has done a great job and deserves the chance to bring in his own players and see what he can do with them.

    Having said that if it looks like things are not working out for RG, then we should consider replacing him around October/November, so that his replacement gets a chance to bring in his own players in the January window and put his new ideas into action for the rest of the season.
     
    Reggie likes this.
  6. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    Ah well

    Thought we were almost good, but in reality actually fairly poor (if some of the little knocks and flicks had worked we would have looked class , but they didn’t, so it just looked like we could not pass)

    We have the makings of a good team for next year , however suspect that by the time we get to September several of them will have new injuries.

    JG is staying , we all know the Watford way, if you go, you go on the last day of the season (unless your really really bad)

    Holebas , can’t pass, can’t throw, can’t take a corner , what do you do (to the sound of Adam and the Ants goody two shoes)

    Nice to have challobah back
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  7. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I agree with much of this post but some of the players patently are sh*t. Why isn’t their any point in calling this out. If we upgraded some of these substandard units we would have more of a chance of doing well as a team.
     
  8. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    Who's this Ravi Gracia bloke you speak of? I hope he's better than Deeney up front
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  9. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    I don't think I've every offered any of those excuses for our poor away run. Although it's clearly an abysmal run, I'd prefer to look at our overall record and I'm fine with how Gracia has done overall, particularly given the situation he inherited.

    The main argument to get rid of him is that the same squad played so well under Silva at the start of the season. Well I don't accept that as I don't accept he's had the same squad to work with. He's had no Chalobah or Cleverley available. We ran our best two players of the first few months (Doucouré and Richarlison) into the ground by playing them almost every minute of every game over the festive period. Every week there are 3-4 changes enforced by new injuries or fitness problems. There is no continuity, none of the partnerships that successful teams have throughout the pitch as the same players can't stay fit enough to play every week. I think any head coach would struggle under those circumstances. I think he's earned the chance to have a pre season and a crack with a fitter squad.
     
    HeurelhoGomesBaby likes this.
  10. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    The squad isn’t totally balanced and I think we all agree it needs improving in certain areas this summer.

    But did anybody look at it 8 away matches ago and think to themselves ‘I really don’t think that within this squad we won’t find a goal or two over the next 700+ minutes of away football?!’
     
  11. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I'd rather have Ravi Bopara as coach.
     
    CaveManHornet and RookeryDad like this.
  12. I'm not sure even Pep could get more than a handful of goals out of Deeney, Gray or Okaka
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    You're too hung up on this away goals sequence. Why don't you talk about the 11 goals scored at home in the 7 games, or the 14 points picked up from those 7 games? It would be a more balanced view.
     
  14. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Does that need a question mark at the end of it, mate?
     
  15. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Why don't you take the rest of the evening off. It'll do you good.
     
  16. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Too solely blame Gracia for our away record would carry more weight if we had been consistently playing badly or ultra defensively or not creating chances at all - which hasnt been the case. For the most performances have been ok, we've tried to be positive and win games and we've created enough chances to win games.
    Richarlison, Pereya, Gray, Deeney and Doucoure have all missed golden opportunities to score in recent weeks away from home. We were also missing opportunities earlier in the season, most notably Chelsea away springs to mind. Likewise we have been making far too many mistakes at the back for the last season and a half.
     
  17. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    RP also fits perfectly in the ‘Oh Forestieri’ chant.

    Next best thing to having the little man back.
     
  18. vic-rijrode

    vic-rijrode First Year Pro

    Given Doucoure's recent form - and I hesitate to say this - is he the midfield equivalent of Ighalo - two blinding half-seasons with us, then dross after that until sold for a sizeable wedge?
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  19. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    That's why I said we can only afford mid-lower table-quality players ON AVERAGE. We'll buy a few that turn out to be better than anticipated and a few that are less so. Those that aren't up to the grade will still have to play when there are injuries / no obvious replacements. They're not sh*t, they're just not quite as good as we'd prefer, but have to make do.
     
    Teide1 likes this.
  20. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    In fairness, in terms of incomings it could well be a quiet summer by our standards - a striker, leftback, centreback plus Delufeou & that Penaranda lad. Of course our recruitment committee are a law onto themselves so I wouldnt be at all surprised if we sign a load of midfielders or development players that disappear on loan for a few seasons.
     
  21. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    In the case of Prodl, Britos and Holebas they have deteriorated with age so as to be no longer of even lower premier league standard. Add to the fact Zeegelaar was never of premier league standard in the first place. So yes, they are sh*t even by lower premier league standards.
     
  22. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Whoops! I meant Javi of course :oops:
     
    CaveManHornet likes this.
  23. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The latter is what worries me. Plus I hope I am wrong but I think Peneranda will be a flop looking at his attitude problems at Malaga.
     
  24. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Wouldn't go that far. Doucoure has been quiet of late, but I don't think he's been 'bad' in many games at all. We're merely holding him to a very high standard, whereas Iggy looked absolutely bereft of any confidence for a long time
     
  25. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Of course you did. That's why you put 'RG' later in the post.
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  26. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Because today we’ve played an away match and this is the thread about it!

    I think if you go back to the Newcastle thread, you will see I posted about the home form and was appreciative of Gracia’s efforts in those games.

    You always write extremely well but sometimes you do seem to appear to have a line you spin. I appreciate you feel we’ve played well at times in the away sequence and that the squad Gracia inherited wasn’t perfect but is there any part of you as well that’s been disappointed by losing six away in a row without scoring?
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  27. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Yes of course I did, why would I not have done so as I had already made the error earlier in that post, had I realised my errors at the time I would have corrected both of them :rolleyes:
     
  28. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Because my views are the opposite from yours?
     
  29. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Can only imagine that's where the fat will be trimmed. We'll probably look to sign some Richarlison/Chalobah/Hughes types, young, but first team ready, they've got a pretty bad recent record of signing future prospects in the last few years
     
  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Of course that's disappointing, but you have to consider 4 of those 7 were at Liverpool, Spurs, United and Arsenal. It's only really the other 3 we should be really analysing. At Huddersfield we lost to their only shot on target and Stoke we got a point. West Ham was the only truly poor performance.

    We played well today, losing to United's only shot on target. We played well at Spurs and at Arsenal. We played extremely well against Newcastle in the first half, we dominated Palace in the first half, also Burnley and Bournemouth.

    I would say the only games where the performance was unacceptable was at Liverpool and West Ham.

    I am only looking at performances and on balance there has been way more good performances than bad. I think you are looking at the end result and do not seem to take anything else into consideration.

    IMO, Gracia is a good fit at Watford. If we start off badly next season, then he'll be gone. Gino will not keep him. BUT, I believe he's done enough to earn the chance to have a full pre-season with some (hopefully) improvements to key playing areas.
     
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Are you seeing my side of the debate yet or are we still just blaming it on individual errors that he has no control of?
     
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The defensive shortcomings have been there for over 2 years. They will take more than just 'ironing out' and I suspect they are more engrained than being to be rectified by a couple of new players. They will need better guidance from above and I don't see anything from Gracia in his defensive outlook that says that will happen. The away form is a shocker and can't be easily brushed aside 0r forgotten...'one of those crazy runs' or not. It's a run that could see a team relegated and shouldn't be brushed off so nonchalantly.
     
  33. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    No ones saying the head coach is above reproach or criticism when its due, but the goalless away record has become an easy stick to beat him with. Its not his fault our players keep missing chances they really should score especially when they were doing it earlier in the season.

    I think its fair to say we all feel the same frustration and disappointment with how this season has panned out and i'm not saying that Gracia is the anwser going forward but for us to progress next year there are other issues going on at the club that have held us back and wont be resolved by simply changing the coach. Again.
     
  34. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player


    Ok so to reply..

    You can’t write off four away matches just because they were against top 6 clubs. They are matches in their own right and all part of a season, so the results there have to be analysed too.

    You’ve then cited four home matches, but this is a debate about the poor away run, so they’re not relevant.

    I’m looking at the end results because they are the most important thing about a season. Points won. League position etc. It might be bad luck to play well and not score for a couple of weeks running but for 8 away matches?

    ‘If we start off badly next aeason’. So you seem to be accepting this is a possibility. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

    Gracia has done some good things at home but has also presided over the worst away sequence of matches without a goal in the club’s entire history (along with Silva who had one game of that run too). He has failed to set up a side to score a goal in eight away matches. This is an important fact in weighing up an opinion of him, and can’t or shouldn’t be airbrushed out or swept under the carpet.
     
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    The defence has improved a lot under Gracia. The only blot he had was those heavy back-to-back defeats at Arsenal and Liverpool. If you look at the other 12 matches, we only conceded 12, which is very reasonable.
     

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