Loanees thread

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Steve Leo Beleck, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. reids

    reids Squad Player

    One thing I've noticed at this tournament is how often Colombia go long and aerial to Cucho - despite him being deceptively good in the air for his height (5"9) - playing him in the middle by himself and playing long balls up to him is obviously going to cut into his effectiveness, much better when he receives the ball to his feet or can play off of someone who can win the ball in the air.
     
  2. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    True, but what I've found concerning is how often he's still being dispossessed even when passed the ball on the ground, while there is a CB in close attention. It's rather limiting for a forward player if you struggle to keep the ball while marked., and it's a big negative for a striker that is supposedly meant to be leading the line.

    Hence what I've been saying about him often having to drop deep in to a kind of number 10 position, or drift out on to the wings, in order to get involved in the game (which then leaves no one in the box).
     
  3. reids

    reids Squad Player

    In these youth tournaments the quality is obviously lower than that of the relative leagues - I'd argue that in the league more space would be afforded and the defender less likely to be so close to to the striker. Comparing Cuchos stats from this season to our strikers doesn't seem to indicate much of a swing in this regard (especially considering his age and the fact it was his first season in the top flight)

    Cucho: 2.8 unsuccessful touches per 90 + dispossessed 2 times per per 90
    Deeney: 2.2 unsuccessful touches per 90 + dispossessed 1.2 times per 90
    Deulofeu: 2.9 unsuccessful touches per 90 + dispossessed 2.6 times per 90
    Gray: 3.6 unsuccessful touches per 90 + dispossessed 1.3 times per 90
    Success: 4 unsuccessful touches per 90 + dispossessed 2.2 times per 90
     
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  4. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Interesting stats.

    However, how do they relate to total number of touchers per 90 minutes? It would make a big difference if, say, one of the players has half the amount of touches overall per 90, and thus the percentage of unsuccessful touches and times dispossessed is higher.
     
  5. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Replacement for Mapps?
     
  6. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Yeah that's a good point, I looked at possession between the 2 teams to see if the team had contrasting amounts there (Watford averaged 47.4% possession and Huesca averaged 45.8%) but didn't think to look for each player - I can find the stats for touches in the PL thanks to the official PL site but can't seem to find the same anywhere for La Liga annoyingly (imagine that's one for Opta or something - I've asked on Twitter as I have a bunch of people who probably have access to that sort of data - edit: had an instant reply)

    Cucho: 44.1 touches P90
    Deeney: 43.97 touches P90
    Deulofeu: 51.49 touches P90
    Success: 53.03 touches P90
    Gray: 28.64 touches P90 (wtf!)
     
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  7. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    This is because his first touch goes so far he doesn't get a chance for a second touch!
     
    nornironhorn and reids like this.
  8. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Ace. So after having crunched the stats together, the results actually look pretty believable while considering more qualitative observations about their overall style of play:

    Cucho - 6.3% unsuccessful touches as % total touches ; 4.5% dispossessed relative to total touches
    Deeney - 5.0% unsuccessful touches as % total touches ; 2.7% dispossessed relative to total touches
    Deulofeu: 5.6% unsuccessful touches as % total touches ; 5.0% dispossessed relative to total touches
    Success - 7.5% unsuccessful touches as % total touches ; 4.1% dispossessed relative to total touches
    Gray - 12.6% unsuccessful touches as % total touches ; 7.7% dispossessed relative to total touches

    - Deeney - is pretty good at keeping hold of the ball when it comes to him, although I've criticised him in the past for often appearing to chase shadows and not be involved enough generally in the game, hence his okay, but not great, amount of touches per 90.

    - Deulofeu - gets involved more in trying to make things happen, his technique is decent, but he's brushed aside more than Deeney; likely due to his size and trying more risky dribbles.

    - Success - also gets involved in trying to create when on the pitch, often dropping deep, but his technique is sloppier than Deulofeu's; however, his strength on the ball means he is dispossessed relatively infrequently once in possession.

    Gray - has the touch of a League One player; is hardly involved in the build-up play, is basically just a goal poacher.

    Cucho - similar to what I'd have expected, though perhaps marginally better - sloppier in getting hold of the ball than Deeney and Deulofeu, though better than Success. However, gets dispossessed more than Deeney and Success. Is involved in matches as much (or as little) as Deeney. This ties in with what I believe about his general hold-up play likely not being quite good enough to be a lead the line striker/direct Deeney replacement. These stats are most similar to Deulofeu's, or perhaps Success', which ties in with what I (and seemingly you) believe to be his likely best position, which is more as a #10/second striker, floating off of another more "target man" player.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
    EB Hornet, miked2006 and reids like this.
  9. vic-rijrode

    vic-rijrode First Year Pro

    I am thoroughly confused - or maybe I am just touched (unsuccessfully)?
     
  10. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Choochoo in action again for Colombia vs Ukraine in the quarter final in half an hour.

    Jaime Alvarado back in the side as well.
     
  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Colombia lost 1-0 to Ukraine.

    Choochoo was hardly involved again. Had two half chances from the edge of the box, but skewed both well wide.

    I forgot Alvarado was even playing.

    Ukraine deserved the win, albeit their goal was due to a horrendous goalkeeping error. It was a pretty dire match overall.
     
  12. reids

    reids Squad Player

    He's been awful for every game I've watched as well. Perhaps he's one like Cucho where the team are "dragging him down" (as I've watched Cucho for the senior Colombian team and for Huesca and he looks a lot better than playing for the U20s), but I can't really see that being the case.
     
  13. Avispón

    Avispón Academy Graduate

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  14. Avispón

    Avispón Academy Graduate

    A few of our loanees still haven't finished the season in Spain yet, we have 3 players who are playing in the play off finals this week.

    Pervis Estupiñán for Real Mallorca: Thurs 20/6 Deportivo La Coruña v Real Mallorca (live on Hesgoal.com)

    Jaime Alvarado for Hercules: Sun 23/6 Hercules v Ponferradina

    Matheus Aias for Mirandes: Sun 23/6 Mirandes v Atletico Baleares
     
  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

  16. Avispón

    Avispón Academy Graduate

    GoingDown likes this.
  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

  18. Avispón

    Avispón Academy Graduate

    Dimitri Foulquier has been called up to play for the Guadalupe national team in the CONCACAF Nations League. Guadalupe have been drawn in the same group as the mighty Turks and Caicos islands and the slightly smaller Sint Maarten. Now go and try to find them on Google Maps hehehehe.
     
  19. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

  20. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    Got big hopes for Pervis .
     
  21. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Family club.
     
  22. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

    http://studiofutbol.com.ec/2019/06/25/osasuna-confirma-a-pervis-estupinan-como-nuevo-refuerzo/

    Osasuna confirms Pervis Estupiñán as new reinforcement
    The president of CA Osasuna, Luis Sabalza, attended this Monday the Radio Euskadi microphones to analyze the current situation of the Navarrese team and talk about several players who have played to reinforce their club.
    Sabalza has been quite clear about the situation of Pervis Estupiñán: "We had talked about it and regardless of whether Mallorca was promoted or not. It is a good substitute for Carlos Clerc. "
     
  23. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

  24. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Pervis Estupiñán confirmed as joining Osasuna in La Liga on a 2-year loan deal (we have the option of recalling him after a year). A good age (21) for him to make the step up to the top flight. Hopefully he'll have a decent amount of game-time and can come back after a year to replace Holebas (who'll be 36!) as the bench option behind a first choice LB. Wouldn't surprise me to see him break into the Ecuadorian national team soon either.
     
  25. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It would be good if one of these anonymous constant-loanees actually made a breakthrough and earned a place in our squad. At least it would slightly vindicate the model and playing the waiting game.
     
  26. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    I hope Suarez breaks through, he is half decent on FIFA.
     
  27. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

  28. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

  29. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

  30. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

  31. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

    With very few, if any, new young foreign signings of this type in the last few seasons I wonder if the likes of Becerra, Suarez etc. are the remnants of the Pozzo's Granada era?

    So far this season I think 5 young English youngsters have joined the development squads so the club are either just replacing the players who were released or see more value in home based talent further down the line.
     
  32. another_mrlizard

    another_mrlizard Squad Player

    This bit is supposed to be a joke, yeah?

    Kingsley Fobi – B

    20 year old Ghanaian right back Fobi played in the Segunda B division in Spain for Ibiza, after having been at fellow Balearic team Formentera the previous season. He made 18 appearances during the season and was called up to Ghana’s u23 squad. There doesn’t seem much news on where he might go next but if he likes that part of the world, perhaps it will be Menorca or Mallorca.

     
  33. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Sorry, but I must say I really don’t care about the fortunes of any of these players until they are at our club and ‘in and around’ (©️ A. Townsend) our first team.
     
  34. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

    Not yet out on loan but Kwasi Sibo (pictured, middle of the three) is currently undergoing pre-season with Udinese.
    D_CPJ1mWsAA2p3M.jpg
     
  35. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Does this mean that Dre is the least popular?

    And ‘Bailey’s, yacht rock’ Isaac is king?
     

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