Just one point. I don’t see why being grateful for “how far we’ve come” and being critical of a performance in which we never even got close to giving a (decent and expensive) team a sniff of a game, are mutually incompatible. You can quite legitimately hold both views simultaneously. One is long term, the other short. Long term, yes of course we are in a great position, probably the best position we have ever been. Short term, we have been in the PL for three years, we should have built up a decent enough squad that we should be a bit more competitive than we sometimes seem to be when these crushing defeats happen and we should probably not be in a position where we have the third worst goals conceded record in the division, so criticism of the recent recruitment strategy is not unreasonable, IMO.
I found a pair in the clubhouse tonight if you're interested? They are a slim fit woollen type in light grey. I'll put them by for you in the coaching cupboard,next to the cones and strips.
Totally agree. Both views can be held at the same time. Being critical in the "here and now" over a team performance is every fans' right. It doesn't mean supporters are glory-hunting or unappreciative of where the club is right or, or what it has achieved. In the Premier League, there is real opportunity to become one of the best teams outside the top 6. Look at Burnley. Do they have riches we don't, can they attract better players than us? No, of course not. Whatever Burnley can achieve should also be in Watford's grasp. Where we have failed, is in recruitment of defensive players. We seem unable to sign anyone who is little more than a back up squad player. If you add up all those salaries, signing on fees and transfer fees, it comes to a tidy sum, so we have invested, but have not progressed on the field in defence. We seem over stocked with stop-gaps but cannot break out of this trend. This has surprised and frustrated me as a fan, as I know how smart the owner is a running a football club. If you think of our defenders, then probably one of the best is Cathcart, who played in the Championship. I will leave Kiko out of this, as he is the exception to the rule, but all the other defenders we have at the club would find it hard to get into a Premier league squad. We are at a top Championship club level in regards to defenders. No higher than that and it shows by the amount of goals we keep conceding. We have let in 143 goals in the past 73 matches. Almost 2 per game on average. I look at the midfield and we've really progressed here. On the flanks I have seen progression. Strikers cost big money, so progression is understandably slow here, but getting good defenders to the club should not be the huge problem it seems to be and it continues to put our Premier league survival at risk. For that reason, I think fans have a right to voice concerns.
Of course we can rant. All I'm saying is look at Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Burnley, Southampton, Palace and Bournemouth. These are our peers. Stoke spent 18 million on Imbula. A flop. Palace 27 million on Benteke. A flop Southampton 18 million on Lemina. Downed tools allegedly. Charlie West Brom. A flop that downed tools. Swansea spent 17 million on Baston. A flop. Burnley 15 million on Wood. 50/50 on that. Defoe at Bournemouth 100k a week. Injured most of the season. We spent 15 million on Gray and it hasn't worked out. We are in this mini league at the moment and we can't spend another 15 million replacing Gray just like that. Another couple of years of patience and we could be that club. Until then we should face facts it's a slower build than we all hoped for.
Good points. And which suggest that investing in improving our defence would be a better bet than lashing out big bucks for that star goalscorer.
The worrying thing is that our defenders (maybe except for Femenia>Janmaat) are ALL interchangeable from game to game and you will see no real difference. They are all to relatively the same standard. I actually believe many of them have done well to get where they are because I cannot see one of them realistically getting into another PL side. Sure, Kaboul and Cathcart could be marginal improvements on what is out there but the reality is that they are still average at best. My opinion on Kabasele is on hold as he has looked the best of the bunch this season but I still think he’s not as good as we may need. I’d like to see him with a better player next to him than he’s been accustomed to and see what happens then. But this defence does not play as a unit, as a team-within-a-team. They all play their own individual games and I’m surprised we’ve never really ever been in relegation trouble because of it. I think Gino has studied the market in years gone by and realised there aren’t huge margins to be made on GK’s or defenders whereas there is on midfielders and strikers. We’ve done well with what we’ve got so far but looking at the balance of our squad right now, it’s clear where we need improving.
I have nothing against you personally but so many posts by you have something similar to the above. I don't really understand what you think you're achieving? It's like some weird attempt to rub people's faces in something they no doubt don't really care about. Not looking for a fight at all as I neither care or have the time, just an observation.
Maybe it is. I dunno it's just something that annoys me whenever I see it. "Last month I said ... and got slated but now look". Just don't get what it adds personally.
The reason the imbecile got slated was not because he thought we'd lose all those matches, but because he thought we might still go down. Which was utterly ludicrous and he got quite rightly ridiculed about it. Thankfully this season he seems to have learnt his lesson, so he's not quite so odious this time round. In fact, I've even read a couple of his posts.
I resent you calling me an imbecile as it's a bit of a weak put down. I much prefer odious t urd that doesn't flush. That's one of your finest.
I'll say it publicly, if these bunch of clowns can't win any of the next few games at home with style then they can shove their season ticket where the sun don't shine. I'll not be putting myself through the same sh*t next season if the overpaid snowflakes don't give a cr*p..
I think if the home form drops off, given the opposition we have in those games, then I really don’t think Gracia will be here next season.
To be fair, most of us have our own trademarks on here though... HB1 likes to think he see’s things no one else does. GoingDown likes to be witty and sarcastic. RC likes to be curt and to the point - and extreme. Clive does an excellent match preview piece. I like to moan about our defence every week and lack of investment in it. LowerRous likes to slag off Deeney. And ITKJim likes to talk about imagining other people’s erections. Would be boring without (most) of it.
Don't think anyone is saying you can't criticise the poop we dished out on Saturday. I don't think anyone has defended it as a fine performance. So I am wondering where you are coming from on this point you are making, because everyone seems to be embracing the scenario you describe above. However, there's been plenty of criticism of people declaring the end is nigh, that decent players who had a bad game are and always have been poop, that Gino is clueless and needs to buck his ideas up, and we're going nowhere (having come a couple of million miles since red construction helmets were the vogue). There's critical assessment of your favourite team and there's knicker wetting, as it were, with a world of difference between the two. For my part, none of my criticisms have been aimed at anyone who said we were poop on Saturday, but at people who have assumed we are and always have been *****, destined to be relegated. I'll probably feel just the same when they're sucking hornet nob, declaring undying faith and declaring that no one gets us after the next win.
I was thinking of posts like #390. We always seem to get these “look how far we’ve come” posts when we lose badly to a top team. There is a fundamental truth there, of course, but it’s not incompatible with criticism of current performances or recruitment etc. I agree with your second paragraph.
Interesting thought re Gino. The defence was all right under Quique. And I thought we had upgraded the players since then.
