Let's Back Javi

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by wfcmoog, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I hate the chopping and changing of managers which is probably why I’m still on the fence regards this. If we are to change though, now is the time. Difficult fixtures coming up but Sheff Utd have started well and got an excellent draw at Chelsea yesterday so that won’t be easy either. City and Liverpool apart, every game is winnable. Arsenal and Wolves are tough but winnable as proven in the past. The other issue is the defence. It isn’t good enough and these are experienced players so a new coach will have the same issues.
    On the flip side, we have some talented players, Pereyra, Delefeou, Welbeck, Quina, Peneranda, Sarr of which only 1 played yesterday. I always think teams should play to their strengths and forward play is clearly ours yet we don’t play these players.
    It’s a tough one but I’m not sure how impressed Gino would have been yesterday as it was obvious what the game needed and that was pace yet we don’t use our quick players.
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  2. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Line up and formation totally different 3 games running
     
  3. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    I was thinking this as well whilst reading the 'get him out' posts from folk. He has not long ago signed a long term contract. And I would imagine having to pay a hefty amount of compensation were he to go now.
     
  4. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    Only difference this time is we got Dawson at CB.
     
  5. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Mad to think, but if Foster had been more aware for a few seconds, and Deeney hadn’t lost his head, we’d probably have gone on to beat Arsenal. We completely outplayed them, even with 10 men. It was a travesty we lost that game.

    I’m certain that 3 points there would have given us unbelievable momentum and confidence. Genuinely think the season would have ended very differently.

    Such small margins.
     
  6. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Absolutely. Season defining game.
     
  7. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Reservist

    Why are people saying the next three games are a wash, so give Javi them anyway? The only game that’s a given to lose is Man City. We’ve beaten arsenal in recent times and we beat wolves both in the league and in their biggest game in the history of their club last season. We only lost to them because of Fosters decision to be rubbish for the last few games of the season. We’ve ran arsenal close in most games against them. Every game I’ve seen them in so far this season will be nothing different. Yes they have a lot of pace up front, but they are still duff defensively. Man City I expect nothing from but that’s purely because Javi will try to match them. We need a smart coach in times like this. Against Man City, 11 men behind the ball, deep backline, don’t press to give them space and conjest the middle. At the very least that would keep our goal difference respectable.

    We could easily pick up 4 points against Arsenal and Wolves, that’s why it’s important to change the coach now and not give those games to Javi. We need as many points as possible. A while we could lose the next three games, we could just as easily also take 4 points.

    The games we have lost already, in order to make up those dropped points will require us to get a few wins against the top 6 this season, under Javi that won’t happen. However Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal are all beatable this season, even Spurs will be Spurs and are subject to a rubbish result.

    It’s a waste of potential points to give Javi the next three games.
     
  8. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    The other way of looking at it is that the new manager just might get something from those 3 games which nobody expects. If we lose all three nobody is going to be pointing a finger and saying he is no good. If you are going to change your manager - just get on with it.
     
    RMT79 likes this.
  9. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    Actually there could be - new manager bounce and we get some points where we expect none.
    If Javi stays and gets a draw or two it makes sacking him look worse.
     
  10. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    If Gino had to pay him £5m to see the back of him that would equate to less than three league places. Would a new head coach be likely to deliver three places higher in the final table?
     
  11. YellowKicks

    YellowKicks Reservist

    I genuinely think the Pozzo's are going to wait too long and it will be too late. My opinion is that if he's still here until the next international break, we are as good as in the Championship. We don't have the players to do one of those season saving winning streaks.
     
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  12. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The Pozzos are also likely to appoint another budget journeyman manager as well.
     
  13. YellowKicks

    YellowKicks Reservist

    That is my biggest fear. But you'd hope common sense would show them the seriousness of the situation. Imagine having to tell Joao Pedro he's got Brentford away as his first league game.

    Imagine our current bottlers in a Championship dogfight. Minus the good ones. Barnsley away with Success, Zeegelaar, Prodl.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  14. I don't know it's fair to call these 3 bottlers.

    They never get to play to see.
     
  15. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Budget journeyman?? All of the Joka, QSF, Walter, Snakebite and Javi have come with their international pedigrees.

    What they don't do is appoint has-been, Anglo-Saxon dinosaurs. Long may that policy continue.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  16. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I’ll give you Walt and Silva. Javi, Sannino and Joka were the definition of journeymen.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  17. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Sannino yes. QSF won the Europa League with Atlético. The Joka won his national double twice in succession. Never been done before. Who do you want? Guardiola? Klopp? Mourinho? Surely not Allardyce? Pardew? Hughes? All sacked fairly recently.

    We do things differently.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  18. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Before joining us Joka’s last adventures were: Heracles. Levski Sofia. And.......Muangthong United. If you want to argue that isn’t a journeymen then be my guest. Gracia had 9 clubs in 10 years before us.

    Silva and Walt were good profiles. QSF as well in fact. I think Pozzo got put off by Silva and will now opt for yes men with less ego like Gracia going forwards.

    But if you are going to suggest I want Klopp when obviously it’s pointless debating.
     
  19. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Completely agree. This squad couldn't fight its way out a wet paper bag. Well, one man can, and we all know he'll be getting sent off every other week. They need confidence and I can't see that happening under Javi.
     
  20. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Probably. If it sees us safe it will be worth it though. This is not a short-term attitude either. People who want change to avoid relegation are the ones who are thinking longer-term.
     
  21. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

    Out of interest, do either of you think the squad is good enough to avoid relegation whoever the manager is?

    Personally, I think it looks average at best and still lacks pace throughout.
    The defence is lopsided in its make up, too many right sided players, and we have too many centre midfielders in the squad (7).
    The attacking midfielders are easily defended against unless our central midfield 2 are having a stormer.
    Lots of forwards but again, is there a real quality player there?

    If Doucoure and Capoue are on it, it hides deficiencies elsewhere but now we are predictable because of that we look easy to defend against.

    Would another coach be able to do anything before the next window?
     
  22. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I can’t agree.

    There’s just as much sense in saying that Javi might get something from those 3 which no one expects.

    And if we lose all 3 under a new manager, Watford fans may not point fingers. But a large percentage of others certainly would.
     
  23. barker

    barker Academy Graduate

    Looking at the way Arsenal are playing today I cannot see us getting anything at all out of the next game ...
     
  24. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    If we don't act now and lose the next 3 we reduce the pool of managers who want to sunbathe on this sinking ship
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  25. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    Two things on that. First there is no new manager bounce to help Javi and recent results do not suggest we will do at all well. Second if he does get a point or two it makes the decision to terminate harder.
    Possos need to decide now - even if to spare the blushes of a new manager (would they require that?) they let a caretaker cover the 3 games
     
  26. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Overall. Yes. No doubt about it. It's the strongest it's been under the Ponzi's and we haven't looked in trouble until now. I would suggest the natural position for this group of players is 11th or 12th.
    With the right set-up the defence would be nowhere near as **** as it has been.
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  27. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    I think we need an artists impression on the current situation tbf.
     
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  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    ‘New manager bounce’ isn’t something you’re guaranteed to get. I discount that...
    As for the second point, if he gets a couple of points from Man City and Arsenal - then he deserves more time as they will be good results.

    I don’t have a firm opinion one way or another. But I think he’s a good coach and is generally liked and respected. If we are to get rid of him, it should be done with a fairly ‘sure bet’ of a replacement coming in. If it’s for a ‘punt’ - let’s be careful what we wish for.

    What I will say is his decisions yesterday make him very very hard to defend.
     
  29. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    Nothing much is guaranteed in football but new manager bonus is not uncommon but I have never heard of nearly-sacked manager bonus.
    So 3 points from 21 would be good ? We took 3 just from Wolves last year in that game.
    I also am not of the opinion Javi is terrible but the point is that if the Possos decide to get rid we are not talking about that but the timing. We already need to exceed last year's remaining results to get above 40 points - time is not on our side in this. A decision put on hold is dangerous
     
  30. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    Well I have decided having thought about it for the rest of the day that he deserves 10 games to sort it out. I wont join the it'll be too late bandwagon, we still have 28 games after to finish above 3 teams in the league which is doable with or without Gracia depending on how the 10 games go. We may have no win in 6 but if we rally after then it may not look so bad. Every season before this one my pre season hopes were that we would stay up. This season my pre season hope was a top half finish. After the bad start i'm back to what I used to say pre season which is I hope we stay up.

    Yes, I have disagreed with his team selections and subs, but I think I have done with every one of our managers at some point in the Premier League. Its just the 'armchair manager' in me.
     
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  31. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I say keep him. Knowing watford, we will go and win our next three.
     
  32. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    This is a solid post, especially considering you were very vocal last summer about your concern that Gracia would take us down.

    It’s a very tough situation to be in. Ideally, we’d be able to go after somebody on the younger side of things, a little more progressive than Gracia and who would be able to come in, get us organized and then really take us forward. That’s a big risk when you’re in our position, without a pre-season to help implement a new style of play, even if it is early in the season. Southampton and even Leicester to some extent showed that you can make a change like that during the season and get away with it last year, but the bottom 3 were pretty weak last year.

    That said, the longer we wait, the bleaker the situation is likely to look for a new manager coming in with the fixtures we have coming up. With the international break, it’s an ideal time to make a change, and then use the fixtures we don’t really expect anything from to begin implementing a new tactical plan/playing style.

    I hate to say it, but I think his time isn’t up. We need to move on before the situation gets too dire.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  33. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    It’s never boring!!
     
  34. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Lol!
     
  35. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I’m sick of people saying javi out were 4 games into the hardest league in world football. Crystal Palace lost there first 7 last season no goals no points and they stayed up West Ham lost there first 4 0 points not only did they finish 10th they finished higher then us in our best season yet! Have more patience have more faith ! In javi I trust
     
    luke_golden and CarlosKickaballs like this.

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