League Cup 3rd Round

Pretty sure that's a wind up, either way I'm delighted you're not running WFC.

 

Very well said. We should not forget that Spuds have one of the most settled squads in The EPL with plenty of quality in depth. We still gave them a run for their money. Sema by most accounts did not have a great game but we have seen the potential in pre-season. We have got this guy for a snip - and we should give him time to adjust and so on.

 

Assuming it would have to involve the referee agreeing to bin off his own decision, that would be ripe for abuse.

 

You're either very young or very shortsighted then. For most long standing fans, the memory of a cup win would far outweigh the short spells of top flight football we've enjoyed in our history.

For a club or our size, time in the top flight is very much an outlier in our history. Most of our time has been spent in the lower divisions and, most likely, will be again.

To look back and say, "ooh,we had 4/5/7 years of top flight football" might mean something to you, but saying "we had 5 seasons of top flight football and a cup win" means a lot more in a historical context.

The season under QSF was statistially very successful, but I have very few stark memories of it. The one thing I remember very clearly was the completely cowardly no show at Wembley, when we were within touching distance of a cup final. I'm sure that there are other games which people can jog my memory about, but if we went to wembley and lifted the League Cup, I guarantee you that in 30 years time, every single one of the 30k Watford fans who were there that day would be able to reel of their whole day's story, like it were yesterday.

Why the obsession with clinging onto a top flight berth? Because of the money? It's a false promise. We have higher income and higher outgoing. I genuinely don't understand why someone who claims to be a Hornet for ever, would prefer to come 17th in one competition over coming 1st in another.

 

There are few competitions anyone can win so that alone merits having a good go at winning each match. It is just shame that these cups have lost their prestige. The FA Cup 3rd round draw was the most eagerly anticipated event of the season for clubs like Watford back in the eighties. Now the 3pm kick-off time is an inconvenience for TV scheduling.

 

I'd happily sacrifice a decent league finish for a Cup win, even if it meant staying up on goal difference.

 

So it wasn't a wind up! Even so I fully respect your opinion & appreciate your logic. There are much wider considerations, than you as a fan wanting a nice fuzzy feeling about your club winning a league cup once & the great day out you had.

If we went down & spent another 10 seasons in the Championship you would soon forget about the piece of League cup silverware. Ask any Birmingham fan if they would swap, I think most would.

By the sounds of it guess I am the only one here that thinks that, but I wouldn't change that point of view.

I live in the here & now. I want to remain seeing our best squad against some of the worlds best players & teams week in & week out.

If we went down, I would love a cup run. In the meantime I have plenty fond & long lasting memories of the club, certain games, the promotions, relegation battles & our current extended stay in the PL is probably the clubs greatest ever achievement in itself. No way I would lose that for any one off cup competition.

 

Birmingham are a different kettle of fish. A much bigger club with bigger potential (historically at least). I haven't looked it up, but I imagine they have won league titles and fa cups.

For us, I disagree with your assertion that 10 seasons in the Champ would make people forget about the silverware. On the contrary, we are destined to have 10 seasons in the championship at some point, whether we win the LC or not.

Anyway, I agree to disagree. It's not that either of us don't understand the other's opinion, we just have different priorities.

 

When I see these sort of arguments, it's always put forward as an "either/or" debate, like you can win an FA Cup but be relegated, or win the League Cup and stay in the Championship for 10 years.

Had we won the FA Cup in 1984, it would be with fans forever. It would always be remembered. Hell, we still go on about getting to the third round of the UEFA Cup.

Watford have never won a domestic cup, and have only been to one final in their entire history. I think the team we have now is capable of doing that this season, with the way we are playing and the fact we can fully rotate and still not lose anything in terms of ability as a side, gives us that opportunity. This season we still have another chance in the FA Cup, unless we get Lee Mason again of course, but all being equal, we have a chance.

Winning a major final is more than just a good day out. It's something every fan will remember forever.

This is how highly I value the domestic cups, especially the FA Cup. If someone said to me, you can win the Premier League or finish runners up and win a domestic trophy, I would take the second option every time.

 

Birmingham are very poorly run. We aren’t.

 

While I get where you are going with the argument, it was widely (and correctly) shown that it wasn’t a penalty against Hughes vs Fulham as he was already well on his way down before Mawson even made the challenge. Alli certainly makes the absolute most of Kabasele’s challenge but it’s 50/50 at best, but most seem to say it was a penalty with Alli going down easily. I think there’s a bit of yellow-tinted glasses going on!

 

I'd personally take the silverware every time. You might bounce back up the following season and you might have gone down next season if you'd stayed up.
It's a tough one actually. Take Wigan. Their fans will never forget winning the FA cup. They got relegated but would they still be in the prem by now anyway if they hadn't been distracted by the cup ? Probably not.

 

Anyway, I agree to disagree. It's not that either of us don't understand the other's opinion, we just have different priorities.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Plus it's natural & healthy for people to have different opinions & priorities.

Even though I'm right (joke)

 

I used to go big on referees on how we constantly got more bad decisions then good ones. The Zola season, where we came 3rd was a prime example. Referees had some sort of agenda against us that year and the stats back that up.

Since promotion officials have vastly improved. However, there are some notable exceptions to this rule.

If you get Anthony Taylor or Lee Mason, while playing a top 6 side, you are in trouble. They will always look to favour the bigger side. These two are individually weak and ant to appease the top club, as if they are in awe of them. Jon Moss is in this category also, although to a lesser degree.

Michael Oliver is very clever. He can officiate to a very high standard if he wants to, but he's dangerous as he will make big showy decisions in order to advance his career and he's been very successful at doing it. He will officiate a match 95% perfectly, which allows him to indulge with the strange last minute penalties or other weird decisions.

Mike Dean, is like Taylor and Mason, but in reverse. He tends to go against the big 6 quite often. He seems to enjoy the controversy that ensues, although I've noticed he's being a bit more subdued this season.

That's about it. I think the majority of the others are good decent referees who officiate honestly, without any agenda, bias or weakness, and I include Atkinson in that seeing as he was controversial at Fulham. He's one of the good guys.

 

Love how everyone on here (admittedly about 10-15 people) jumping on the 'I want to win silverware bandwagon' whilst we are riding high in the league.

Nothing like an extended run of 3 /4 losing games or a relegation battle to shake people up & bring people back down to reality.

I will from this point forward never forget Moog's phrase "I'd take relegation for a league cup win any day" - so thank you.

 

There's a thread every year where we have this debate (not sure how to dig it up) but usually the majority wants silverware regardless as to how we're doing but there a few who share the same view as you

Not sure about others but if we were to lose the next 4 I'd still want a cup run.

 

To be fair, I assume (hope !) that Moog meant winning the final, as opposed to a match in the earlier rounds !

 

Again you're making this "a cup win and relegation, or early exit and EPL survival". Why is that?

I don't want relegation whether we win a cup or not, but if we did go down it would be a nice consolation. If you go down, you go down. Would you prefer relegation and winning a cup or relegation and not winning a cup?

Would you prefer staying up and winning a cup, or staying up and not winning a cup? These are the only questions you should be asking.

Winning a cup, does not mean you have to be relegated afterwards.

 

Agreed. You don't have to be. But cup runs can hamper league performances as Wigan (& Middlesbrough ?) have shown.

 

I don't believe it is a wind up and I agree. I desperately want to win something and the Premier League is not all that, and we may end up getting promoted again if we did go down. Nobody remembers where Wigan finished every year in the Premier League but most can tell you they won the FA Cup.

 

I don’t think it’s so much the cup run that hampers smaller teams - Wigan and Boro were poor teams and amongst the favourites to go down anyway. And in these latter years, squads are stronger and better equipped to go on cup runs. It’s the following season when you play in Europe that hampers performances.

I don’t think a cup run really would be a huge distraction for us. But if someone came along and said it would be one or the other, I’d take a relegation and a cup win. Some silverware and Europe would live long in the memory and a club like ours don’t get that opportunity often. We’ve shown in recent years we are more than capable of gaining promotion back to the PL.

But thankfully it’s hypothetical anyway.

 

I don't believe this is the case. We rotated 11 players against Reading and 10 players against Spurs. If anything, it's harmed us by going out this early, as the "cup team" are not going to get as much game time now.

 

In previous seasons we were wary of losing our Premier league place and were cautious regarding " going for it " in the Cup competitions, having said that we were very close to getting to the F.A. Cup Final in our first season back in the P.L. (froze on the day in the semi), I think decent draws and before you know it you are in the 6th round and, to be honest we probably have as good a chance as any of making progress in the F.A. Cup this year as any as long as we play our strongest eleven!

 

I recommend you speak to any decent Luton fan (there are some, well one or two), even QPR fans old enough to remember the 1960s and any Blues fans you know.

I believe the majority will tell you exactly the opposite - that the League Cup win was their greatest day out watching football. Especially for the Blues fans - have you seen the fun they went on to have in Europe on the back of it?

 

I was with you right up until the last part . I would love to win a domestic trophy but to favour that to winning the premier league doesn't sit right with me . Yes i know it would mean there wasn't that 1 special day out but to win that prize would likely mean having about 30 special days and be the ultimate reward for a consistent season whereas cup competitions always need that element of good fortune .

 

Well, yeah. Beating Reading reserves is not the historic victory I was talking about

 

Same. Winning the league would be the ultimate, but it won't happen in my lifetime. A cup win is possible.

 

I know my view will split opinion, but for me coming runners up and winning a cup, would give us so much more. We would still qualify for the Champions League, we would get almost the same amount of income from a league placement and we would have a major cup in the cabinet.

Had we won a few FA Cups or League Cups in the past, then my view would probably be a little different, but to see Watford's captain lift a major trophy at Wembley would surpass everything. Of course, I'm only talking domestically. If we won the Champions League then that would top the lot.

 

Mourinho is banging a similar drum today, when asked about their 'defeat' to Derby:

 

Exactly. It's a small, (OK maybe not so small), bugbear of mine. How many people who bet on a Derby win, (I got 14-1), got paid out?

 

It wasn’t a draw though! England didn’t draw in Italia ‘90. The result is determined by penalties. And certainly not by betting companies.

 

TBF I think they drew the match but lost the subsequent penalty competition.

 

But it’s not 2 games - a match, and then a penalty match? It’s one game as a whole. Just sounds ridiculous to try and claim we didn’t lose. That’s the type of thing fans of Top 6 games get ridiculed for claiming on social media. An Arsenal Fan TV assessment if you will!