Can't we just wait until we have to cross the bridge of having Stevenson playing in a league game once we get to it, rather than all these having meltdowns about things which haven't actually happened yet and still have a fair chance of never happening?
Positives for me yesterday: Peneranda. Can’t fault his effort, he was always asking for the ball and trying to make something happen. Makes you think there still might be a footballer in there somewhere. Agyakwa. Vast improvement on last week. Looked much more confident on the ball and played some nice passes. Nowhere near ready for the first team but with the right development path and time he could be a very good CB. Garner. Took him a while to find his rhythm and range but I like the look of him. Like a young Chalobah. Going to be a future star for Utd. Philips. Had a horror of a game but didn’t go hiding. (I thought Dawson did). Sinclair like last week neat and tidy, this is his level and he should have a squad place for this season. 10/11 expected to start Saturday were wrapped in cotton wool.
Take the point about Garner but he looked like he needs to learn quickly, looked shocked by the physicality last night. Started ok but disappeared after being fouled a couple of times. Pussetto looks wholly unsuited to English football to me and I actually did think he was up for it last night, was just frustrated at being bullied out of the game. Phillips is awful, I commented on his touch not being good enough before last night and he gave away two goals from basic errors. I don't think we'll see him again in the first team unless something goes really wrong. And I don't think we can include Sarr or Suarez in our attacking options until we actually see them on the pitch. I don't like being negative, always look to find some balance but just really struggling with the start to the season so far to find any positives other than the two clean sheets. I actually thought the market being depressed would help us as it meant we'd be more likely to keep hold of the likes of Capoue, but I didn't foresee them not being involved. Not being able to shift certain players like Pereyra and Deeney is having a knock on effect as it looks like we're now having to consider getting rid of saleable assets that we'd rather have been part of the squad, and we seem to be stuck in a sell before we buy quandary. Anyway, here's to hoping that your more positive take is the one that actually comes to pass.
No meltdown here. Every post I have made has been made calmly - some just disagree with the content as is their right. I think it’s been worth discussing what last night meant for the current squad depth, not the result or the fact we are out of a cup we admittedly could do without. Happy to leave it there and look ahead with trepidation to the weekend.
having to use a right back or a winger at left back isn’t good squad depth. Takes away from Other positions. As it stands if Ngakia got injured we then have to turn to Pussetto or Sierralta because Kiko is being used on the left. Think we can all agree that left back is an absolute priority
Fair points. I was only half-watching the game but looked like Garner was very positive and always wanted the ball but that seemed to fade, did he get a heavy challenge on him? Will need to get used to that in the Championship, I agree.
I think that is the symptom of poor planning and management Burnsy just mentioned. I would sign as YK mentioned Pickering or someone whose career is on an upwards trajectory. Loans are not ideal but bring in Salter-Clarke or Harwood-Bellis and look to secure them for a season if we ever do get there in the PL. No one is having a go at Garner or Phillips. I am not. Both have played barely a handful of first team games. Garner as GD has said has played with much better players in the EL. He will need to learn to undertake more responsibility, be more aggressive and work on his strength to impose himself. And I think he has all the talent, ability and most importantly mental fortitude and intelligence to do so. One thing some supporters unfortunately do is to jump on players who have barely played a handful of games but I am sure he will come good. What is not excusable is the muddle from on high. There is no defending it or the complete darkness we the fans have been left in.
Take it to the owner. He'll either laugh you out of his office - or give you the little black book of Udinese duds to flick through. Beware the page marked 'Zeegelaar' mind you.
Well you say our first team was what we saw vs Wednesday and Ken Sema is now our best player. You also say earlier in your piece if Sarr, Suarez, Capoue all go, then that's pretty much it for quality in our squad. And you say in a later post that Suarez, Capoue and Sarr could already be training ready to start on Saturday, making a huge difference to that first team picture. That's kinda the point, we wont know where we are until the transfer window closes, its too early to judge, which was what I was emphasising in my reply which you responded to.
I've now watched the highlights from the official site, and unfortunately, it's very clear none of the academy players could be considered as options for league matches. All of them looked way short of the expected level. Phillips at fault for the third goal, although Dawson's lack of closing down and Bachmann deciding not to dive has to come into question also. Stevenson was letting his man cross the ball too easily and the second goal came from one such cross. We didn't contest the second ball after Sierralta's initial clearance. Phillips missed the header and although it was a smart shot, Agyakwa just stood there with hands hands behind his back, instead of charging towards the ball. Garner, although highly regarded, doesn't look to be a big influence based on that display. He was very quiet and made a couple of basic errors when he had the ball. Stevenson got penalised for shirt pulling for the penalty, but it was an incredibly harsh decision. The ball didn't even reach the player he was marking. If you're going to give that then there will be a penalty awarded every time a ball is swung in, because that type of activity occurs in both boxes all the time. Sinclair again looked weak, Pussetto again looked lightweight. Dawson looked disinterested. There was nothing from anyone in the team where you could say, yes, they really stood out and will be a shoo-in for Saturday, although at least 9 of them will be in the matchday squad I'm sure.
Yeah, it was a classic case of the ref realising he'd mucked up big time earlier and waiting for the first opportunity to correct things.
I do not remember any mention of "this season" in the club's comment about returning to the PL in the letter to the fans. I do remember Ivic saying it, but not SD or GP. I would imagine Ivic is now regretting his over-enthusiasm. I'm not convinced the hierarchy has ever seriously believed we will be ready to go up this season; they have direct, first-hand knowledge of how bad the financial situation is. This is not excusing them; they are totally responsible for how bad things are. It's just that I (& some others I assume) have accepted the fact that they have totally fu ck3d it up & that we will have to wait 2-3 seasons to be in any position to go up again.
Yes. Marriappa is, and always was, a decent Championship player. But I do worry he has played a lot of football and is now getting old.
Interesting that a month ago you liked Pussetto and thought he'd be useful to us? Now after his first appearance, in a largely unimportant game, alongside a bunch of kids, he's in the same pool as u23 player Stevenson and Jerome Sinclair. Now he's "utter crap". After one game, and a 5 minute cameo against Wednesday. Very interesting indeed. http://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/pussetto-to-udinese.57425/
I would say I'm being consistent in what I said. I don't think he was a good Premier League player, but thought he could be useful dropping down a level, but now after seeing him play I don't think he will be. He appears too weak and not cut out for a physical league. That's my opinion at this moment in time. Might change next week if I see evidence to the contrary. What always surprises me, is that people remember what I write and go to great lengths, scrolling through pages and pages of dialogue in order to find something. I find that sort of thing baffling, but I'm glad you found it interesting. I never remember what anyone writes, even my own stuff.
I happened to see your post today as the Pussetto thread was updated, and I read through the 2 pages.
Thats a bit harsh to write off a player based on highlights of one game, the first half of which he was tried out as a right back
Maybe, but our issue is more a first team issue. Players plucked out of the reserves or who aren’t regular starters not being motivated to play in nothing league cup games is not necessarily an issue unique to us.
Surely, (with the exception of old-timers like Murray and Dawson), probably all of the young, inexperienced players would have regarded the Newport game as one of the highlights-so-far of their short careers. I just don't think lack of motivation was an issue. It's probably more worrying that this is how it may have appeared.
Curiously, perhaps, I feel Phillips is one of the youngsters who most shows promise. Yes, he makes loads of mistakes, but they are mistakes borne out of inexperience. He is only 19. In fact, with most of the youthful players, one can see a certain something or other which could be developed to the point where they could have professional careers. But these are at the moment glimmers that come and go from match to match. Agyakwa, for instance, looked totally anonymous against Oxford but, played further back, he had more time and showed some good, creative skills. To be clear, though, I would not want any Watford body in last night's match anywhere near the Luton game, (with the possible exception of Perica - and that is now not going to happen).
One of the many things I disliked about the match was the way the whole team didn't look like one. We have credited Ivic with good organisational skills, so far. However, if someone had told me these players had never met each other before, I might well have believed them. Possible reasons for this: Team cobbled together from the few available. Ivic is not as good as we believed. Ivic has not been here long enough to cover everything. The players are crap. The players were mostly too inexperienced. The club didn't want potential first-teamers anywhere near lock-down Newport. Ivic wanted out of this tinpot cup, they have other fish to fry. His bosses told him to want out of this tinpot cup, they have other fish to fry. (Not sure how that translates into Serbian). Several or, indeed, all of the above.
Views from a happy clapper - 1 day later that was a disgrace , I don’t understand why you would put out such a lightweight side, I know the cup is a drain on resource but the one think we seem to need is more time to gel , surely playing more games gives you more cohesion charging fans £10 and putting out that squad is unfair, they should be charging a novelty fee of £5max if they are not going to field a team capable of winning. It won’t be the squad that plays Saturday so don’t think it’s the end of the world but genuinely disappointing to see such disrespect to a cup completion. still a happy clapper but if we don’t start seeing bigger players come back soon may go over to the dark side
Wouldn't be blaming Ivic for anything yet, if we have a settled team and still play like that, then sure, I'll ask questions of him. The kids did well enough against Oxford that they could be bailed out by some (but not all) of the older heads, last night they (apart from possibly Agyakwa) were not. Definitely a matter of being cobbled together at the last minute, the young lads probably haven't played that style of football, the older lads might not have seen much of them, and were playing for the first time in ages (not that it's an excuse for jacking it in of course)
i was quite enjoying 2 games a week (well I liked the idea , actually watching them was a whole lot less fun)
And not offering prize money until the latter stages. Ultimately though, it's always been a moribund competition, never interesting until the later rounds, even if the EFL had done everything they could to protect the competition, everyone would have sacked it off with all this fixture congestion
A shame really, because the real culprit of the fixture congestion the big clubs moan about is the European competitions' group stage, and even though they play their rezzies until possibly the final, they're still more than good enough to beat basically everyone. No wonder even clubs who are securely in mid table in the Premier League or Championship are just thinking what's the point?
Quite. Expecting clubs to play additional games and incur travel costs when their incomes from match days are currently nothing is ludicrous. Best to exit the cup as soon as possible for most teams in the current climate - you're on a hiding to nothing. Why risk getting first teamers injured and potentially incurring appearance/goal/clean sheet bonuses for zero reward?
You forget that football only started in 1992. Although anyone who watched us beat the champions Leeds 2-1 at the Vic in November of that year would not describe the League Cup as “moribund”. https://oldwatford.com/1992/11/10/10th-october-1992-league-cup-third-round-watford-2-leeds-united-1/
In recent times, I mean. I'd love nothing more than a cup run, but what can you do when there's basically no chance of winning the bloody thing? All that work during the cup run, all for a ******* hiding, but even if we weren't completely **** that day, we'd have still ******* lost...
We tried to wrap them up in cotton wool, we actually did try, but Perica went and bollocksed it all up in the last minute...
