League (carabao) Cup - 2019/2020 - Newport County

I’m not disagreeing with black and white results. But the environment around the club during those previous seasons was far more secure so a cup exit then didn’t look indicative of wider issues. I think this season is a different matter for the reasons I gave. So my opinion is that I don’t feel comfortable writing it off as a ‘nothing game that doesn’t matter’. We have had a truncated close season and have players who don’t look entirely match-fit or comfortable in the system so far in our league games - tonight would have been a good chance to breed that familiarity with the system and raise fitness levels of the players we will rely on this season. It also could, and should, have been used to get minutes into the legs of those other players who have yet to play a part in my opinion. Suggesting they would have ended up suspended or injured, whilst possible, was unlikely let’s be honest.

But as I said, we won’t agree. So I said let’s leave it at that. Let’s try again.

 

I personally would have preferred we give the cup a chance. One more week and this cup is put to bed for months. Why even bother going to Wales with that squad? Last weeks team was weak but this week it was weaker still, they didn't stand a chance of getting a result. It only needed changing up by a couple of bodies and that would have done it, what harm could that have done?

 

last night result and performance is probably a true reflection of the state in which the club is at this moment , we had a underachieving premiership squad , which due to numerous factors was relegated , our income from football and commercial revenue has been drastically reduced resulting in all of our saleable assets being made available for transfer, some of these are injured and some are being wrapped in cotton wool. no one to my knowledge is refusing to play.
the depth of the current playing squad is wafer thin and is lacking any premiership grade players , so if by any fluke, we get promoted, how can we compete with out a massive injection of funds ( typically promoted clubs are spending £100M+)
if we are not careful we could become the new Sunderland.

 

I was always going to be asking too much for us, in our depleted state, to turn out for 3 successive weekend/Tuesday rounds. 7 games in 22 days in total.

 

So it’s been proven that there is absolutely no correlation between the league cup and the rest of the season over the past ten years... but it somehow does suddenly have correlation when the environment around the club is ‘less secure’? Rrrriight, makes a lot of sense.

 

I do feel sorry for Ivic because of the hand hes been dealt by the club but I also think if he wants to play this 352/343 formation it relies on sharp passing from the midfield and willing and skillful runners at wing-back. If we don't have this (either be through rotation or the fact that players aren't good enough) its his job to try find a formation which suits the players at his disposal.

I'm not saying its all his fault, but there needs to be some flexibility on tactics based on the line-up

 

The best game I can remember us playing in the tinpot cup in the last 10 years is one against Spurs and we still lost on ones anyway, interesting that despite it being proven that there is absolutely no correlation between results in the league cup and everything else, this was our team from that game:

Watford: Gomes (6), Navarro (5), Cathcart (6), Mariappa (6), Masina (5), Femenia (7), Wilmot (7), Chalobah (7), Quina (6), Sema (6), Success (7).

So basically our championship team now. But yeah lets have meltdown because our third string lost to Newport.

 

We've seen the quality of incoming transfers we are to expect; Sierrelta, Perica, Stevenson, Murray. Ok Ngakia looks a great find, but we aren't spending money and with that budget, that means we are getting old crap, interclub chaff from Udinese and youngsters who are untested.

There's no way we sign more than 3 or 4 players before the window slams shut, of any quality. Even then, I expect the standard of incoming to remain consistent.

If Sarr, Suarez, Capoue all go, then that's pretty much it for quality in our squad. JP maybe has something, but he's raw and certainly doesn't deserve the whole club's fortunes resting on his young shoulders.

These players that were battered by Newport are not dredged up from our u23s. They are first team squad players in reality now. Some of these will start on saturday and several more will be on the bench. The rest are all just one or two injuries/suspensions away from featuring.

That is the reality. Our first team was what we saw vs Wednesday. Ken Sema is now our best player. Our standards have fallen so far, that even Sinclair is doing ok comparatively.

So poor at planning are we, that for the left back position, we sold the best young left back in Spain last season and replaced him with a player Charlton deemed not good enough for their u23s. That is the reality of our situation and how far we've fallen.

Some of you want to wait until the inevitable happens before you judge. You want to put your hands into Gino's steaming leavings, smell and taste them before you make up your minds.

I'll leave you to it. I can see what is in front of me - a club which has been plagued by hubris, arrogance and despotic rule, which has reacted to the inevitable adversity resulting from those failings, by instigating a new madness of squad weakening and panic selling, whilst completely ignoring the actual on pitch reality it creates.

 

But that is the reality of the situation.

There have been monumental mistakes that have got us to this current position, but at this present time they can’t be undone.

We’re in the championship with a huge financial black hole to fill and no pulling power to buy good players, that’s the reality of the situation.

It’s just wearisome to go round in circles talking about it in the context of a nothing league cup game, especially when it’s been unequivocally proven their results have no correlation to anything.

There are plenty of threads about the state the club is in, but it’s in the state it’s in. It would be useful if this thread could just remain about a nothing game in the tinpot cup and all that entails.

 

The cup game is over and finished. None of us can change that, whether we think it matters or not.

The larger point is the backdrop to that game. Was it a choice to play 3rd string players who will be loaned our or sent back to playing exclusively u23 games from now on? Or is this reflective of our squad strength.

Of course, Suarez, Capoue and Sarr could already be training ready to start on Saturday, making a huge difference to that first team picture. If not, if the Wednesday line up is a realistic picture of what Gino has given Ivic to work with, then we will lose and we will finished mid table-bottom half.

 

Mistakes have been made. But I think what Watford fans want to see now is us moving on and going again in the next game. Let's get the player sales done and we can move on to a bright, prosperous future fighting for promotion with players released from Charlton.

 

The club is in a mess. We all agree the club is on a mess. All that constantly repeating ad nauseam on every thread like its some amazingly insightful piece of news that the club is in a mess does is spoil the thread.

 

This has all been discussed at length. We have been relegated and need to cut our cloth accordingly.

This is normal. Every club who comes down puts any player with high wages or a significant resale value into a separate, non playing corral. We cannot afford injuries to our assets.

Of course we will lose to Luton but that is the reality of being relegated. Nobody will even remember that defeat in a month's time. Once the window closes with 8 new amazingly sourced players of real quality, it will all be forgotten as HMS Pisstheleague finally gets out of the doldrums ready to sale Round the Cape of Promotion!

 

We don't all agree though. That's the point and the reason why the discussion is ongoing. From both sides.

 

It could be worse.

At least we scored in our 3-1 thriller.

Luton lost 3 - 0. Nil!

Think how gutted they must feel.

 

Sail.

 

Is it possible to claim a deliberate pun on our club's obsession with player trading over first team success?

 

It did occur to me...

 

A succession of very good points in this post.
Your last paragraph echoes something I've been saying for years: The coaching philosophy in this club seems to be about preparing teams for matches, as well it might; but it does not seem to be about improving individual players. A lot of them need to refine their games. Probably we have had coaches who could do this, but I would guess they don't have the time, nor are they particularly motivated by the system, to actually do so. I may be wrong, but it's an impression I get.

 

It's not our third string though, that's entirely disingenuous. With the players available at the moment, most of those are an injury or two away from starting for us in the league.

Pussetto would have to cover Ngakia.
Dawson would come in for a centre back, Sierralta if two were injured.
One injury in midfield and Garner is starting, two and Dan Phillips gets to don his boots.
Murray is going to start a lot of games this season.
Pedro injured and we turn to Sinclair or Peñaranda.
If Sema got injured, who knows what we'd do? Just not bother with a left sided defender, as Stevenson is a million miles away from being able to start a game?

I don't think people particularly care that we got knocked out of the meaningless cup, they care that our current squad depth is so appallingly weak and this is exacerbated by having a whole host of players that are fit but won't play.

 

Stevenson hasn't even been on the bench in any of our league games, but sure, continue with your pathetic, persistent, nonsensical moaning.

 

Exactly right, 100%

Yet we have fans who want to skim over things because it was a League Cup game, they are happy we lost and added an embarrassing defeat to the resume all to blindly defend the club again.

 

@wfcmoog and @Steve Leo Beleck have already formulated more than worthy replies to this on my behalf.

 

If Sema gets injured or is withdrawn for whatever reasons the club decides on Saturday (which is entirely possible at this stage), who are we playing at LB or LWB thats didn’t play last night? Genuine question.

 

People actually think Estupinan's replacement is Stevenson? The player signed specifically for our u23 squad? Really?? Our LWB options are Masina, Kiko and Sema, all adequate for this level. Also seems we're looking for another, with Masina injured, Kiko a potential outgoing and Sema perhaps being more useful in a central role. I'd be amazed if Stevenson makes more than 5 league appearances this season, even with an injury crisis.

 

I don’t think anyone truly believes he is the replacement. But fans are discussing the here and now - not the hopes for the next few weeks. As it stands, we have sold the only fit LB we have and have no one seemingly to step in apart from Sema or Stevenson.

Stevenson is an injury away from the first team so it’s fair to discuss the merits of that. Much the same for a number of players last night as pointed out by @Steve Leo Beleck

 

Of course he's not. He won't make a single appearance in the league. But until that left back comes in, we are a Sema injury/suspension away from having no-one that could even do a job out of position there.

I'd genuinely get Mariappa back in right now given the state of things, we could switch to a back four, with him on the right (and cover for the centre backs when everyone is fit again), move Ngakia to the left. Mariappa was never as bad as people made out and would be fine at this level.

 

Those of us being critical aren’t being so just for the sake of it - well I’m not anyway. I want nothing else than to be positive about the club I support, the players on show and the direction they are heading in.

But the truth remains, at this minute, that whilst the owner continues to pay talented squad members to sit out, that a fair amount of last nights players make up the first team squad. Some of them are just an injury away from being involved. That’s something that some of us find very concerning. And that’s why some of us feel last night has relevance in the wider scope of things. None of us are angry because we felt we could have won the cup - I accept it’s meaningless. But I’m angry because it’s another symptom of poor structure and management from those on high.

 

Think it's quite funny that Garner is being judged, not on playing for United's 1st team last season, but his first outing, in a nothing competition, alongside a bunch of academy players. He's really being written off because of that? Pussetto and Dawson are good enough for this level, although Nacho clearly wasn't up for it last night. And I thought everyone liked Phillips 48 hours ago? If Pedro gets injured our attacking options would be, as it stands, Gray, Sarr, Suarez, Deeney, Perica, Pussetto, Penaranda, Sinclair with everyone fit. Even with Gray, Perica and potentially Deeney unavailable, do you expect Sinclair to start on Saturday? If one of those is sold, I imagine the plan would be to get a replacement in using those funds.

The squad last night was not our go-to second string. The only starting players who are immediate back-ups would be Dawson, Bachmann, Garner, Murray and maybe Pussetto. And as we saw with Pedro in the u23s last season, put a decent player in a squad packed out with youth players in a competition they're not that bothered about, and they won't set the world alight.

 

Femenia? Or even Pussetto.

Yes Pussetto was absolute bobbins again yesterday, but he wasn't as dreadful when he moved to the left flank in the second half.

We might even move to a back 4 and stick Cathcart at LB.

 

Yet when I made the point that I was happy we'd exit the cups asap as at meant fewer games in which key players could get suspended or injured you dismissed it completely. Odd.

 

It seems they do.

He's not been brought in for the first team! His wages will be next to nothing comparatively and will have no impact on our ability to sign a first team LWB. Sam Dalby. Joseph Hungbo. Randell Williams. Signed for the u23s, never likely to trouble the first team in a league game. Where was the outrage when we signed them?

If Kiko genuinely was ill last week then he should be starting Saturday if recovered. If he's still ill then we have two LWB options both unavailable due to injury/illness, and are still able to field Ken Sema in that role. Not bad squad depth, imo.

Agree with you on Mariappa, if we can't find anyone else.

 

But we aren’t playing the key players. We have strength in depth in most positions almost immediately if we stop the tactic of wrapping half the squad in cotton wool and not letting them kick a ball at all this season.