(10) Joao Pedro

Discussion in 'The Team Bus' started by nornironhorn, Dec 19, 2019.

  1. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

  2. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Btw if anyone wants any Watford related videos: goals, passes, challenges etc just drop me a DM and I can get them easily enough.
     
    zztop and UEA_Hornet like this.
  3. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    Too early to come to that conclusion. Needs more games and some of the first team players back particularly up front, and even then as you say not cut and dried as this is a lower level. Though JP already better when Richarlison's head was turned about a move, he was rubbish then.
     
  4. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Admittedly JP is a lot fresher now than Richarlison was when his head was turned, JP's last game for Fluminense was November last year I think, and even when he came here in January he was used sparingly. Richarlison on the other hand was running on fumes by about November time having not had a proper break in about 2 years
     
  5. Ágætis Byrjun

    Ágætis Byrjun Reservist

    Just turned 19 and has the minerals to take a hugely important penalty ahead of several experienced pros. Great kid.
     
  6. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Scored a brace last night. 5 goals at this stage of the season is not bad at all given our turgid style.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  7. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Quality player, with good technique and seems like one of the few genuine winners in our squad. Credit where it's due, looks like an excellent signing.
     
  8. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Identifying good young South Americans: the one thing the Pozzos are good at!
     
  9. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Definitely our best striker, the issue is how to utilise him best and with who
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  10. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Moves like a seasoned professional. And with such ease and lithe grace. He will become a top class player I am sure of it. Has it all in terms of technique, speed and finishing at such a young age. The sky really is the limit for him. May not have the goals as yet but he is a class above Richarlison in what he can do with the ball and his overall game.
     
  11. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Another strong showing.

    Doesn't mind the physical stuff either.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  12. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    And he brooks no crapulence as Atkinson R would say!
     
  13. He's got it all, like a young Drogba, once he adds experience the goals will come and the sky is the limit
     
  14. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Biggest difference maker for this guy is his mentality. He wants to fight. He’s a winner.
     
    Otter and Hogg-DEENEY!!! like this.
  15. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    He is a tough little cookie this kid and it is beginning to show more and more with each game.

    We have a real winner on our hands and he's still only NINETEEN!!!
     
  16. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Another star in the making. No goals yesterday but his touch and control especially in tight spaces are what separates good strikers from average ones. Led the line wonderfully well and his lay offs are played with perfection and the correct weight nearly all the time. He was in the right place at the right time in the box and helped as a decoy for Sema's second effort. It is just worth watching a match to see him play. His tenacity is growing along with his strength which is allied already to a real will to win. A great team player but he needs to be played regularly to get into a real groove. The mobility he offers from dropping deep to retreive the ball, press hard from the front and create space for others is exemplary for such a youngster. As before the sky will be the limit for him. Let's enjoy him while he stays at the club.
     
    batterahatter, CYHSYF, zztop and 7 others like this.
  17. RS2

    RS2 First Year Pro

    He's improving quite rapidly now and looks miles ahead of the other strikers at the club, although admittedly his competition is poor. Only 19 and has been used sparingly over the last few months, so I don't see why he can't start almost every game for the rest of the season. I'm sure Munoz will have something to say about that though.
     
    Otter and zztop like this.
  18. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Just let him play and learn.
    No athlete ever improved by not playing,especially at 19!
    Train,rest,eat,sleep,play,repeat.
    Don't play those two nit wits unless there are no other options.
     
    Helsinki Horn, Otter, CYHSYF and 4 others like this.
  19. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    In my view he is potentially a bigger financial asset than anybody else we have at the club.
     
  20. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Hopefully the tedious comments from Mooney about Troy will stop. He showed perfectly how a central striker should play. Strong, great touch, vision, movement. He so deserved a goal yesterday. Agree with you his ceiling is massive.
     
  21. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Praying we manage to keep hold of him beyond this season, imagine how good he could be next season as our undisputed main man
     
    Carpster likes this.
  22. Ágætis Byrjun

    Ágætis Byrjun Reservist

    Just mental that we shoehorn poor players that are getting worse and make the team worse instead of playing young, improving and already miles better João Pedro every week.
     
  23. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    He's a joy to watch, there are so many little things where he shows real class on the ball. He also glides across the pitch, he's far more elegant than Richarlison ever was. Sure, he needs to get involved more in some games but he has the natural talent to be a real player. And he doesn't back down, which is good. I liked it in pre season when Dele Alli left one on him so next opportunity he had, he took him out and then stared him down.

    If we go up, we'll get another season out of him. If we don't... no chance.
     
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  24. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn First Year Pro

    I’m not sure he’ll leave. I think he’s done enough this season (particularly with the elegance of his general gameplay) for us to value him very very highly, but I can’t see too many teams looking at his output and then stumping up the £20m+ we’d ask. There’s more established championship strikers available at that price (players like Armstrong or Joao for instance).

    Stylistically I’m also not sure there are too many teams for whom he would fit into their style and make it into their first team. He’d likely be better off being the established striker for us next season, regardless of our division.
     
  25. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Maybe but if we stay down I don't think we'll be in a position to demand £20m+ for anyone other than Sarr. And wealthier clubs pay for potential all the time, he might even be bought and loaned out straightaway.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  26. He will want to be playing games. If he sits on the bench he might consider his development will be better off elsewhere.
     
  27. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn First Year Pro

    Sarr and Cucho will probably be our two big sales this summer. If we bank £45m+ from those two (as we should) we’ll be able to demand what we want for any player on a long-term contract. If Chalobah and Hughes don’t agree new contracts, we’ll probably sell them too.
     
  28. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Rather depends how much debt we're in, I'd suggest.
     
  29. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Cucho is an interesting one, he's done OK but hardly set the world alight in La Liga, where money might still be tight next season. Estupinan was essentially the biggest deal all summer in Spain at £15m (plus future fees/bonuses apparently), would any club be willing and able to pay somewhere in the region of that for Cucho?
     
  30. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn First Year Pro

    Well reports (including the Giraldi interview) suggest we got £15m for Suarez, and although Cucho is less of a goal scorer, he is younger, more highly rated by the club and supposedly on a long-term contract. This is really interesting - https://fbref.com/en/players/71b47ab9/scout/365_euro/Cucho-Scouting-Report

    Cucho’s goal output is obviously not great, but his passing, dribbling, tackling and pressing are all outstanding when compared with other La Liga strikers.
    Agreed. But (and I don’t think this was discussed on the forum yet at all) the fact that we are one of just six sides in the Championship who did not rely on furlough or other government assistance like loans during Covid suggests we’re not in the financial desolation our transfer business has suggested (I read about that in the Athletic last week).
     
    GoingDown likes this.
  31. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    How'd you figure that one out?! His pass completion percentage is below average for all pass ranges.

    As I've said on many an occasion he's more of a wide forward than a striker anyway. His goal-scoring, tackling and pressing are all average by that measure.

    He is a very good dribbler, but doesn't seem to create many chances as a result of it.

    I said already last season that I thought Suarez was a better prospect than Cucho (though he's more of a CF), and given how he's taken to La Liga that still seems to be the case. Cucho is a bit younger, but I don't see how his value would be higher than Suarez' was.
     
  32. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Another poster with some major revisionism - JP was shattered by the start of December and was crap and completely anonymous for a good few games, even compared to the rest of the team. He also hadn't done too much since returning from his lay-off/rest either up until the weekend. Bristol City was the first game this season where he actually looked sharper and "improved" compared to the season's first month (before he started seeming increasingly more lethargic).
     
  33. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    He's not going to be getting any more minutes at a PL club yet, that's for sure. We've had to be patient with him and might still need to be. Another year here even if we don't get promoted would probably be good for him as he's still not shown he can play at close to his best week in, week out.

    He'd still be a development player at most PL clubs, who can not afford to carry many players as young and inconsistent as him in the cut-and-thrust league - he'd be restricted to 20 minute cameos and Cup games at pretty much all current PL clubs for another season or so.

    On the off-chance that we got promoted this season I very much doubt he'd end up being first-choice in any position for us next season in the PL, and if he was we'll be asking for relegation.
     
  34. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn First Year Pro

    His passing volume and progressive passing distance are both very good. I would consider both more important (at least for a striker/forward) than pass completion percentage which is a bit of a nothing stat as it can just be indicative of playing safe.

    As for why Cucho could or should be considered a better prospect: Setting aside their general all-round game (which I would argue sets Cucho apart from Suarez but appreciate that goal contribution is the primary metric for strikers) Suarez has 5 goal contributions (5G) in 1169 Ka Liga minutes this season. Cucho has 5 goal contributions in 1222 La Liga minutes (2G 3A). Getafe are also performing much worse than Granada at the moment making Cucho’s output more impressive. Hard to see how one could characterise Suarez’s output as him taking to La Liga and Cucho’s as not setting the world alight based on similar contribution in similar minutes. Prior to this season, Suarez had one hot season in La Liga 2, whereas Cucho had one hot season in La Liga 2 as a teenager and two seasons where he performed pretty well at La Liga level. Cucho is also almost two years younger, which is quite significant in terms of development and future potential.

    Look, the immediacy of Suarez’s good season made him an attractive asset last summer and we won’t enjoy that dynamic if/when selling Cucho. But I don’t think it’s an outlandish opinion to view Cucho as the better all-round prospect - there’s a rational basis for that view.
     
  35. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    One thing that got me wondering off the back of that was if he'd qualify for a work permit for a move to a PL club as it stands.

    https://worldfootballindex.com/2020...e-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/

    The Championship is only a 'Band 2' league and his domestic minutes is only a smidgen over 60% (1,587 out of 2,610 max).

    So 10pts for being at a Band 2 club and 7pts for his domestic minutes = 17pts. So unless his minutes drop much further he should be fine.
     

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