Javi Gracia "fired"

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Squibba, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I don't agree. I very much doubt they would have sacked a manager after two wins and two clean sheets.
  2. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Only Watford would have an WhatsAp for sacked manager news.
  3. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    I know. But they would have had it been disallowed as we shat ourselves in sight of three points. Fact.
  4. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Agreed. I've never said that some of the pundits don't treat us unfairly. Just that refs don't!

    These pundits have never forgiven us for the loan deals with Udinese in the championship. Then they've noticed that we do change head coach quite a lot (true - but other clubs do too) and have simply continued to run with an 'all that's bad in football' agenda because we're an easy target, compared to Muff say, with the longest serving manager in the PL, a largely British squad and no 'special deals' with foreign clubs.

    And these pundits, especially big-ears, haven't got the wit or inclination to get their needle out of the stuck groove. Why bother? We're only Watford. They don't have to notice all the good things that go on at our football club and the excellent way in which it's currently run. Just go through the motions and pick up their substantial pay cheque.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  5. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    No, the football was crap under Quique throughout Deeney and Ighalo pulled us through the season. Under Javi we played good attacking football that mixed things up. Under QSF it was turgid from the start with no width at all and aimless lumps up to Deeney to knock on to Ighalo.

    I remember the QSF end of season and it was utterly atrocious from Feb onwards.

    So judging by both full seasons you can argue that Javi was more progressive and attacking than QSF.

    All this being said I will support QSF whilst he is Watford manager.
  6. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Rozerhorn likes this.
  7. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Not only is he better than Big Ears, he's always well researched and forensic and insightful. The Andrew Neil of sport. Which makes him the best i.m.h.o. Dan Walker is excellent too if maybe a bit less challenging.

    In the printed media I really rate David Conn in the Guardian.
  8. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    Lineker never forgave Graham Taylor for subbing him and has had in for Watford ever since
    Rozerhorn likes this.
  9. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    I would not be surprised if all clubs have a WhatsApp group (or similar) for when they want to put out a message to all players at the same time. It is now the easiest way to communicate and is private to those in the group unlike the likes of facebook or twitter
    folkestone orn and CleyHorn like this.
  10. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Missed all the excitement due to being at a wedding .

    Shame about Javi but results and performances have been poor and it's the manger who usually carries the can for it all .

    Interesting to see Flores come back considering he and the Pozzos seemed to part last time with a falling out .

    Hopefully he can make us solid at the back again ..

    Holebas and some of our attacking players might not be be too chuffed to see him return !
  11. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    C'mon. They all will have.
  12. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    When Pozzo/Duxberry handed Javi a five year contract did they not think we'd go on a run like the one we're currently on at some point? I think Javi's sacking and QSF's appointment are panic reactions that reflect poorly our board
    NWH likes this.
  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Nope.....Watford are the only club that sacks managers. Don't you watch SSN?
  14. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    The trouble is that "some point" is not just "any" point. If you have had a good or even medium start then a spell like this one could be weathered perhaps - but to start so badly places us in a difficult position
  15. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    It's been clear for ages that our board are no where near the consummate professionals they make out to be.

    The best scouting network in the world thing is similarly a load of absolute horse shyte.
    NWH, Burnsy, NathWFC and 2 others like this.
  16. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    The 1975?
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
    Burnsy likes this.
  17. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    I think that’s confusing two things with one another. We do having an excellent scouting network, look at players like Richarlison and this Pedro lad.

    Do we alway get the players we’re after? More often than not no, because there is always a bigger richer club round the corner. Sometimes the player we sign might be a 4th or 5th choice which might make our scouting network seem poor based on the standard of player we’ve bought.
    Rozerhorn and PowerJugs like this.
  18. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    I'm alright with this decision. Gracia has looked like a dead man walking since immediately after the West Ham defeat. It was clear we needed someone who can hopefully sort out our defence and stop us shipping goals, and in theory QSF is most definitely that. He also knows the league and how things work at the club (even if most of the players have changed), so he shouldn't take too long to acclimatise.

    I agree with those that said we played probably the best football of our PL return under Gracia, but something definitely hasn't been right lately and the team and manager being so low on confidence is all it takes for those marginal moments to start going against you rather than for you, and all these tremendously costly schoolboy mistakes to start creeping in.

    QSF's football was poor a lot of the time, but my main grievance during his tenure was his persistence with Jurado - I was more relieved when he left than QSF, and thankfully I doubt he'll be back.

    I can only hope that QSF doesn't revert to picking the old boys again, e.g. Holebas, Deeney and Prodl; they're not the same players as they were four years ago. Curious to see how (or not) he fits Pereyra, Delboy and Sarr in to the team.

    Another thing - no word from the club it seems on the length or nature of QSF's contract, so perhaps a sign that he is just intended to be here to hopefully steady the ship for another more interesting appointment later on? He could be on another rolling 1 year deal again.
  19. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    The overall squad was definitely worse, though the first team wasn't too dissimilar overall from the one we have now.

    GK - Gomes on form vs Foster now isn't much different (though Foster has regressed lately).
    Defenders under QSF were actually better than now - Prodl back then was better than anything we have now. A younger Holebas. Britos perhaps similar to our current lot. Only Nyom at RB was worse than what we have now (though our current RBs haven't been great either).
    Midfield is better now, certainly - Capoue is still there, but we've improved the other 3 spots.
    Strikers - we're probably worse now. Ighalo during his hot streak was perhaps the best goalscorer we've ever had, and comfortably better than anything we have now (holding judgement on Welbz). Deeney hadn't quite started his decline yet either.
  20. The attack we have now is light years ahead of the one under QSF

    Del, Sarr, Welbeck, these are players QSF could only dream of
    PowerJugs and Jumbolina like this.
  21. Holebas wasn't too popular with QSF that season though - he only made eleven appearances. The upside of that though was his near exemplary disciplinary record - only two cards all season, and both yellow.

    Re QSF's contract - didn't Udinese do something similar with their current Head Coach - Igor Tudor? Signed on for a couple of months, left and then came back a year later?
  22. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Whatever has happened this season and at the end of the last I think lots of supporters will still have a soft spot for Gracia. Some of the unnecessary insults thrown in his direction come from mean spirited individuals.
  23. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Agree with this. Our defence now is worse. Players have aged and gone beyond their best. Don’t forget we also had Ake, under Flores, who was brilliant.

    The rest of the team is a lot better though. He’s got his work cut to make a silk purse out of the pigs war defence though. But if anyone can do it, he’s proved he can do it.

    His first 29 games, we only conceded 30 goals. That’s extremely good even for a top 6 side.
  24. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over playing players out of position and reserve judgment. He had a weak squad at his disposal, Capoue was by far and away our best player on paper and he wasn’t as good then as he is now. People eulogise Abdi but the cold hard facts are that he’s an excellent championship player but was never quite up to PL standard. It was bad to play him out of position but it was a case of making something work out of the players we had.

    He used to play players he trusted out of position who he knew would follow his commands and not get the hump over being asked to do it. Apart from the defence we now have excellent options for every position on the pitch. If he plays people out of position now, then yeah he should be shot, but I really don't think he will as he won’t need to.

    I can quite easily see del and bobby not really featuring though, unless he can motivate them to perform better more consistently over 90 minutes. I can’t see him tolerating luxury players like that who are far to inconsistent. I would expect players like Cleverly to be getting more game time than they otherwise would have.
  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Nice goodbye letter...…..that shows class unlike Malky when he went.

    Anyway, one thing I'd have to pull him up on......it was NOT the best season in our history. We came 2nd in 1983 and 9th in 1987 and 11th in 1984 and 1985. Add in the cup final then I'd say it would probably sit as the third best season in our history.
  26. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    He enjoyed the cup final? Funny because it was probably the worst day of my footballing life.

    Just goes to show that getting to the final was absolutely the extent of his ambition, which clearly rubbed off on the players.

    **** him.
  27. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Was that after the Newcastle game? Surprised enough stuck around at the stadium that long.
  28. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    I think this has come to be the case. Or rather, the rest of the world has caught up. Perhaps 10 years ago, when the entire world didn’t necessarily have access to every game on video feed, and there weren’t mountains of stats available at the click of a button, the Pozzo scouting network was ahead of the game.

    What was once innovative and allowed them to find value where others couldn’t, is now a bit obsolete and they’ll need to find other innovative ways to compete at a high level.

    I also think they need to seriously consider how to set about developing the young players they do find, whether via loans or a feeder club. The lack of a proper plan to develop the likes of Penaranda is obvious.
  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    All these lines of the club are behind the coach and are not panicking were totally unfounded. Watford are clearly panicking and are in crisis mode.

    The fact we've sacked Javi and replaced him with a very strange choice, is testament to that.

    We need some meat on the bones now, although I doubt anything will be forthcoming. The club have to make some sort of statement, be it from Duxbury or even Gino himself, as to why they've made this decision after being so confident with Gracia previously.

    They have to show they have got this under control and a calming statement tends to have that effect.
  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

  31. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Why do you think they fell out?
  32. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Cup size too small would be my guess.
    Sting likes this.
  33. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

  34. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    An embarrassing situation. Lucky neither of them ended up on a register.
  35. May have been said earlier but i suspect a mutiny behind the scenes. Capoue "sick", Holebas dropped. I wonder if Gino felt he'd lost the dressing room. QSF couldn't ask for a more difficult opening couple of matches.

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