Ismaila Sarr

Discussion in 'Former Players Archive' started by Burnsy, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I don't think there is any danger of them over-estimating it but I guess perceiving that they needed to buy 3 new players for £25m each might be over-estimating it ?
    My fear that they are under-estimating how hard promotion will be is the fear that they can just keep the squad together and incur huge losses and it won't matter as we can just pay it off with TV money when we are back in the prem next season.
     
  2. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Fair enough. I didn't take wages into consideration.
    Pereyra is nailed on Udinese. This will be a swap deal I'd Imagine.
    Doucs I'd say 20m is fair.
    Gray at 8m. We would be lucky to move him on for that, especially on those reported wages.
    Success, isn't he injured?

    Ken Sema is getting some attention from Italy. His price will be interesting.
     
  3. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I think Sema would be fine for us in the champ if we can't get a great price and would cover one of our start widemen going.
     
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Ok, I see what you mean, you think that they think we’ll go up easily so won’t have to worry about the financial implications of not doing so. It’s a tricky one though, strip the squad too hard and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and once you get beyond the parachute money we’re on a level playing field with the rest of the **** munchers. That said they almost did it first time of asking with 10 Udinese loanees, although sadly the standard of Udinese loanees (or transfers as they’d have to be now) won’t be what they were back then.
     
  5. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    "surplace"....**** I'm embarrassed reading that back....
     
  6. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes that's what I meant and I completely agree with the dilemna. It's very easy and much more exciting to just go for it. If it all goes pear-shaped Duxbury can just walk away, so can the Poxxos to some extent.
     
  7. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    I do not see the relevance of his age, but Sarr was 19 years old when he joined Rennes. Not many players at that age would turn down Barcelona and Rennes did not qualify for Europe until the season after he joined them (2018-19). His decision suggests either that he is a thoughtful player whose first priority is to play regular first team football or that he has a sensible adviser, who is considering his long term career progression.
     
  8. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Fortunately Sarr has taken the stance that he is prepared to play in the Championship. I think that helps us retain him. If he was trying to force a move and had a poor attitude towards playing in a lower league, that would put the owners in a difficult position if a lowish bid was offered. Hopefully we can keep, and generate funds from other players like Doucoure and Pereyra. It looks like Sema wants to stay with Udinese, so presumably we would get a fee for him.
     
  9. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    The relevance is that at 19 he knew he would be years away from getting a first team chance at Barca. At 22 he's now shown what he can do at prem level. You don't think he'd prefer to be a first teamer for a mid prem team rather than playing for us in the champ ?
    I don't see the relevance of what he did 3 years ago as a teenager.
     
  10. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It's certainly good that he is publicly saying he's prepared to stay if we want him to. Will help push up the price when/if we sell him this summer.
     
  11. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    The thought of Sarr, who genuinely terrorized the Liverpool defense, running at Championship defenders is the kind of thing that makes me wonder whether a mercy rule should be introduced.

    If we can somehow manage to hold onto him, and keep him motivated, he’d probably be good enough to get us promoted by himself. I mean, I remember Jonas Gutierrez looking like a monster of a player in the Championship when Newcastle went down. Jonas Gutierrez. A Nordin Amrabat clone.
     
  12. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    don't worry, most of us stopped reading at "$40m".

    This is not ******* america.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  13. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I'm at work and all transactions are in $. However we are heading for 1:1 so currency won't matter soon.
     
  14. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    The relevance is that it demonstrates his maturity and thoughtfulness. His mindset goes further than just wanting to play for a big club and he considers other factors. Naturally he would prefer to play in the Premier League, but he has stated that he is prepared to play for Watford in the Championship this season. I doubt that he has made that statement simply to push up his price if he is sold.
     
  15. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Take that @Relegation Certs , bet you feel stupid now.
     
  16. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    why would he feel stupid ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  17. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Of course he hasn't. He's said that (or rather his agent will have typed that for him) so that he doesn't alienate teammates or fans if a move doesn't materialise.
    It shows as a 19 year old he realised he wasn't ready to play first 11 football in a major league. He now knows that at 22 he is. Of course he's "prepared" to play for us in the champ.....if we don't sell him he doesn't have much choice.
    Next you'll be telling me that Duxbury seriously intended to make us "the best of the rest" in the prem.
     
  18. ITK platypus

    ITK platypus Squad Player

    Laughable that some fans think Sarr will actually play in the championship. We are just trying to drive the fee up. He’s gone, move on.
     
    Cassetti's Beard and onion8837 like this.
  19. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    It does not matter what was his motive (or that of his agent), the fact is that he has made the statement. Other high profile Watford players, who can not be guaranteed to obtain a move to another club, have not openly stated that they are prepared to play in the Championship. Does that mean that they are not concerned about alienating their teammates?

    It showed as a 19 year old that Sarr realised that he would not be regularly starting at Barcelona because of the quality of the front three players there. He could still face the same problem if he were now to join one of the major clubs, although he does appear to regard Liverpool in a different light because of his admiration for and close relationship with Mane.

    Why would I be telling you that Duxbury seriously intended to make us "the best of the rest" in the Premier League? How is that relevant to a comment made by Sarr (even if prepared by his agent)? Are you suggesting that people are gullible to believe what Sarr has said?

    My glass is half full rather than half empty. Personally I think that there is a good possibility that Sarr will remain this season unless the club receives a very high offer which they can not refuse. Few clubs will be a position to pay that sort of money in the present economic climate and there are four years still left on his contract. The Pozzos are primarily businessman and normally they look to sell when a player reaches his maximum value (which is not yet for Sarr). I think that the fee which they paid for Sarr was the highest fee that they have ever paid for any player so they will be expecting a good return on their investment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  20. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    You may well be right. But no guarantee that anyone will pay our asking price. If they do that will clear up some debt with the possibility that we can reinvest. If they don’t we have a player that should do very well in the championship. If he goes to Liverpool, he will be on the bench - so he may be better off to continue developing with us
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  21. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    No.
    Liverpool aren't the only team in the premier league. He would walk into any team outside the Top 4/6.
    Yes. There are plenty of reasons why people in football make statements to serve a purpose without necessarily meaning what they say. You think he wouldn't prefer to join a mid table prem team if the chance came along, rather than play at Wycome and Rotherham next year ? Fine, yes I think you're gullible then.
    I think they will accept a much lower offer now than they would if they were still in the prem. Probably anything above £30m. Player values can go down as well as up. A loss of confidence, a bad injury and we may struggle to get £30m a year or two from now and our need for cash and reducing costs means we are less able to take the risk.
     
  22. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    Does that mean that they are not concerned about alienating their teammates? "No." You undermine your own argument. Why have other players not made statements that they are prepared to play in the Championship if they are concerned about alienating their teammates?

    "Liverpool aren't the only team in the premier league." You miss my point which is explaining why he mentioned Liverpool in his statement. "He would walk into any team outside the Top 4/6." That supports my point that he would not be a guaranteed starter for one of the top 4/6 clubs.

    I suspect that his ambition is to play for one of the top teams in the future, but I am not certain that he is in such a hurry to join another mid-table Premier League team (which is probably what he thought Watford was when he joined). I doubt that he even knows where Rotherham or Wycombe are. Are you suggesting that Sarr is not prepared to play in the Championship if people who believe his statement are gullible?

    "I think they will accept a much lower offer now than they would if they were still in the prem. Probably anything above £30m." Where is your evidence based on the way that the Pozzos have operated in the past? There is always a risk involved in deciding when to sell. Richarlison was sold because the offer was too high to refuse, but the economic situation is different now. The Pozzos reportedly turned down good offers for Doucoure and that may have been a mistake because his value has probably fallen. Other people on this thread have already provided information to support the view that the club are not under pressure to sell many players this season, although they will want to get rid some of the older players and high earners. Sarr falls in neither of those categories. It will be different next season if the club fail to return to the Premier League, but Sarr's value will almost certainly rise if they are promoted.
     
  23. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    In possibly not completely unrelated news, Zaha is linked with PSG, Dortmund and Monaco. Surely he wouldn't be first choice for them, and wouldn't have the HG player premium that he'd have if, say, Arsenal wanted him, so hopefully they aren't willing to spend anywhere near the amount of money that Palace could use to get Sarr
     
  24. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Watford are yet to receive any offers for reported Liverpool target Ismaila Sarr. The 22-year-old would cost upwards of £40m.
    [@ed_aarons]
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    The only reason he stays will be because no-one meets the asking price.


    Good that he wants to play for us but give it a few months of being kicked around and no move then see what is said.

    I just hope he is still here because there are going to be a lot of very disappointed people on Twitter etc.
     
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    He's the one last player who could make the difference. With the expected departures of Geri, Welbeck, Deeney & Doucoure, we have to keep Sarr. If Sarr goes too, then so do our promotion hopes....IMO. What message is that to the remaining players? They'll all look around and know promotion will be highly unlikely without some real Premier League quality in key areas. Even some of the others we've managed to convince, such as Hughes, Foster, Capoue, Suarez and Estupinan will be thinking I'm out of here. Maybe harder for the younger ones to go, but this could unravel very quickly if the club are not firm.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  27. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Doesn’t really make sense, there is a big gap in quality between the premier league and the championship. Nobody needs a £40m+ player to get out the championship and indeed I don’t believe anyone has ever had one. We got out of the league last time with a load of Udinese reserves and the only players that went on the make it as Premier league players out of that lot were Deeney and Igahlo. Of course Sarr would massively help us get promoted, but equally to say we can’t get promoted without him is clearly wildly inaccurate, as proven by every team that has ever been promoted out of the championship.
     
  28. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    If Sarr does go, it needs to be for £40m+ and earlier enough in the window to bring in some quality. What we don’t want is a deadline day deal that leaves us short. I think he will probably go this window, but also a fair chance that we get a season out of him
     
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  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    If you take away the likes of Deulofeu, Welbeck, Suarez, Deeney, Sarr & Doucoure........what we have left will not get us promoted. No chance.....but that's just my opinion.

    The gap is not that big. Look at Sheff Utd, they bridged it easily without major investment. Norwich got it all wrong and Villa just swapped their entire team so difficult to judge them. But the clubs at the top end are similar to those in the bottom half of the Championship, without one or two star talents.

    If the Watford ownership let too many good players go, then they've blown it. It will take years to get back to where we were, and we may never even get there again. Sure we'll have paid off the debts, but will be a midtable Championship club once more. The owner has to be firm and only let those go who they can afford to. We have to keep this young exciting team together and hope they can go through 90 minutes for 46 games, as there wont be too much assistance from the squad players.
     
  30. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Players like Deulofeu, Welbeck, Suarez, Sarr & Doucoure are players we’ve acquired after being in the premier league for a few seasons, none of them are players we could’ve even signed in our first season in the premier league and they’re players that bear absolutely no resemblance to our championship squad that got promoted, the gulf is huge and what we’ll be left with is somewhere in the middle, I.e. more than good enough to get promoted. Not sure why you mention Deeney though, he’s a weight around the clubs neck and will only hinder us in the championship.
     
  31. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    We don't know for sure what the final cut will be and we may even bring in some players. But you do need quality to get promoted. If all those players leave, who are now coming out of the woodwork, we'll not have enough quality to bounce straight back.

    If Ivic plays a 4-3-3 system, what would his best team be?; Foster(Bachmann), Ngakia(Navarro), Dawson(Cathcart), Wilmot(Kabasele), Estupinan(Masina), Hughes(Dele-Bashiru), Capoue(Chalobah), Quina(Cleverley), Pedro(Sema), Gray (Deeney), Success (Penaranda).

    There are still some decent enough players, but not enough. The backups look particularly weak to me. We cannot rely on Gray as being the main man, that would be just ridiculous. This team, in my mind, would probably finish midtable, but with a shot of the playoffs possibly. We certainly would not dominate the league that's for sure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  32. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’d love to keep all those players but it’s just not realistic, but neither is it necessary to get promoted. Championship teams don’t have 5-6 players worth £20m, never have, never will. To say we can’t get promoted without them flies in the face of facts and logic. It’s ignoring how we got promoted in the first place, we didn’t have players anywhere near that quality and didn’t start getting them until we had at least a couple of seasons in the premier league under our belt. It’s also diminishing the role of the manager to virtually nothing, and the difference a good manager can make to even an average or poor team. If Ivic has anything about him he could get a mid table championship tram promoted, let alone one with a lot of premier league standard players and exiting young prospects in.

    Sure it would be easier with those players and in that situation it would actually minimise they role of the coach, but you don’t need players of that quality to get promoted.
     
  33. We might have a slow start due to players in quarantine, but once we get going I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended over 90 points
     
  34. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Yes, but aren't we talking about bouncing back at the first attempt? If so, then that team would not be good enough, IMO. But if you're talking about a slow process of attracting young talent over the next few years, then yes, of course we could go up.

    When we went up last time, the squad we had was a lot better than our rivals. Ighalo (now at United), a younger Deeney, Vydra (now at Burnley)....these were strikers well above the usual level of the Championship. You need this type of quality to go up. I'd say Angella and Ekstrand back then were better than the players we have now. The team was full of quality. Abdi was amazing. Little Fessi and Battocchio. Toszer with the free kicks and set-pieces. It was a very good team.
     
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  35. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    That’s just proving the point. None of those players were close to good enough to making it in the premier league, yet with our rose tinted spectacles they were incredible players that lit up the championship. That just goes to show the gulf in quality between the two leagues, and that we don’t need £25m ex Barcelona players to get promoted, sure it would be nice but it’s pie in the sky.
     
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