Ismaila Sarr

Discussion in 'Former Players Archive' started by Burnsy, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    he is one of the few that I’m confident would still put a workload in , priority has to be selling

    Pereya
    Doucs
    Deeney
    Success

    we won’t get a buyer for Gray but we could do one of those raffles to the lower league sides , everybody buys a ticket for 1k and one lucky 2nd division team gets a prem league striker

    the 5 above would probably reduce are wage bill buy 300k a week or £15.6m a year
     
    lutonh8a likes this.
  2. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Sadly this is possible.

    Although he might not want to given they're not in Europe.

    Plus he's not Portuguese or signed to their mega agent.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  3. Ainzrocker

    Ainzrocker First Year Pro

    The cynic in me says there is some deft PR work going on. Having Sarr say he's happy to stay and insisting you're not going to sell is a good way of driving up the price.

    As a strategy for the window would make sense to focus on seeing how much you can get for those clearly with no or limited future at the club first - Pereyra, Doucouré, Capoue, Delefeou, Deeney, Gray, Success - before making a decision on Sarr, so you can best judge how much you need to sell for the cash vs. ability to hold on to realise a greater potential. Later in the window and with cash in the bank the asking price for Sarr would be higher again.

    Might all just be part of a cunning plan.
     
    lutonh8a likes this.
  4. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    If Liverpool officially bid 25 mill then Sarr will change his tune quite quickly I imagine.
     
  5. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I don't think he will, he has already said he will only leave if Watford want him too and I believe he means it.

    The only way he might renege is if his agent puts pressure on him to do so, but I think he would still be reluctant as unlike a certain previous employee I think this lad DOES have INTEGRITY :cool:
     
  6. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes I'm sure he'll turn down the chance to join the Euro Champs to play in the champ for us next season at Wycombe, Preston, Rotherham etc.
    He's just saying what any sensible player would say when asked so as not to upset fans and fellow players if a move can't be arranged...
     
  7. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Yeah but that's just a rational way of looking at things whereas on here we prefer to go with GUT FEELING and BLIND FAITH. :confused:
     
  8. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Watford Observer saying this morning that the strong intention is to keep him and will only listen to ‘huge’ offers. They suggest £40m wouldn’t even be close and ‘would only cover one leg’. (Strange line to write but that’s what they’ve said!)

    Also says the loan we have taken out means we are in a good position financially and don’t have to sell our bigger players should we not want to. Although clearly some will want to go anyway...
     
    Bubble and Jersey Hornet72 like this.
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/s...king-stand-strong-face-ismaila-sarr-interest/

    Yes, the piece you're referring to is linked.

    This is the correct stance the club has to take. Sarr will be sold at some point, of course he will, but it's not a forgone conclusion it will be this season.

    Liverpool, will do what Liverpool do, and try to raid a relegated club for a low fee, but it looks like Watford will not hear of it. If £40m is going to be laughed off, then I very much doubt any club would pay big on him just yet. He had a stop-start season with us, and the best game was against Liverpool. Of course this is what peaked their interest, and I've no doubt he'll end up there at some point, but they would also know his other games produced a bit of a mixed bag.

    He's all about potential. He can do it, and is destined for the top, but a move now is just a little too soon. A season in the Championship, could actually do him some good. A chance to really dominate games, get used to English football and really shine on a consistent basis. I think it's fairly reasonable to expect Sarr to be with us until the winter window at least, and by the looks of it, this is what the club are planning on doing, with the blessing of Sarr and his agent. Of course if Liverpool do come in with a massive bid, which I very much doubt, then things would be different, but as things stand today, I think it's more likely Sarr will be with us next season, then sold.
     
  10. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    That's great as long as we never have to pay it back.
    If you're in a position where you really need to sell, the last thing you do is say that you're in a position where you really need to sell.
    Yes I'm a pessimist, but my biggest concern about the inevitable relegation at some point was always that, having under-estimated how hard it would be to stay in the prem, they would under-estimate how hard it will be to get straight back up and would risk bankrupting the club by betting the ranch.
    In simple terms with illustrative numbers, if the club is worth say £30m in the champ and £200m in the prem, it's worth risking the £30m by gambling on getting promotion to get back to your £200m valuation. If you fail, just walk away, let the club pass into administration and you've only lost the £30m.....
     
  11. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    We will be selling players, but not to the detriment of the team. We will trade players the board feel we can sell without harming the first team. Of course it's a judgement call, but I don't see too many issues in moving on players like Pererya, Doucoure, Success and Gray. That will probably cover off the £50m loan on it's own, when you take into consideration salary savings too.

    They see Sarr as a vital ingredient to the prospects of the side next season and will not sell unless they get an extremely high offer, which in the current climate is highly unlikely. The bank loan can easily be serviced, as it's borrowing against guaranteed income. We can also easily raise £50m from player trading without any impact to the squad. For me, there is no immediate financial crisis at Watford for the next 12 months.

    Of course if we fail to gain promotion that all changes, but then we'll have players like Sarr, Hughes, Deulofeu, Welbeck, Deeney, Capoue etc we can all move on for significant fees and salary savings.

    This season, if we get it right, should be the fun one, but if we don't go up, then it will be a cost cutting exercise for sure in season 2021-22. I don't foresee too many financial issues in getting through the next 12 months though.
     
  12. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Great minds think alike again HB1, I've always thought it makes more sense for him to stay with us rather than to sell him on. As it not only works better for the club it is probably better for him too, because he will gain great experience and should become a more rounded player after the rigours of a Championship season.

    Therefore, baring a career ending or curtailing injury, he should become a better player and in turn a much more saleable commodity, plus he will hopefully be the catalysis to bounce us straight back to the PL.

    Finally thinking purely from a mercenary point of view, if the worst were to happen and he lost his full potential due to an injury. I would hope that the club would be sensible enough to be fully insured against any financial loss if that were to happen.
     
  13. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Can you honestly see clubs paying 50m for that shower of **** you listed?
     
    Spoad likes this.
  14. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Of course. When you add up fees and salaries saved, it will probably be in excess of £50m.

    Reported salary for Doucs is £3.6m and Gray is the same. That's a saving of £7.2m on just two player's wage. Pereyra & Success probably around another £3m (combined) in salary. That's just over £10m already clawed back.

    If you think we couldn't get around a total of £40m by selling Doucs, Bobby, Gray and Success, fair enough, but I think we'd get more than that for them. Doucs maybe £20m, Pereyra £15m, Gray maybe £8m, Success £5m. Already that's £48m and I'm being conservative with those figures.
     
    gt84 and folkestone orn like this.
  15. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I disagree. He knows we paid more than that for him so even though he’d obviously want to move, he also knows he’s got four years left on his contract and we’d be making a loss on him. Footballers aren’t always the brightest sparks, but I’m pretty sure he’d be able to see our reasoning. If they bid £40m then obviously he’d be well within his rights to kick off.
     
  16. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Isn’t that contradictory? Betting the ranch and taking risks to get promoted straight back is surely overestimating, or at least doing everything you can to get promoted. I would’ve thought underestimating would’ve involved selling all our players, and as a result bringing our cost base right down.
     
  17. Oscar calling

    Oscar calling Squad Player

    Moving to Liverpool (or any other top 6 club) would probably at least treble his wages, but also mean he is essentially a bench warmer for the next 12 months. Most players nowadays unfortunately opt for the cash in many cases due to pressure from their agents. Hopefully Sarr is one of the minority who actually prioritise playing over immediate wealth.
     
  18. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    Yeah I thought this myself, good idea though. I agree I would be looking at seeing how much we can make off Doucoure, Pereyra etc...
     
  19. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    No, it's not.
    Being prepared to run at a significant financial loss this season by not cutting costs and retaining much of last year's squad on the assumption that that's all they need to do to get back up to the prem is the "under-estimating" and "betting the ranch" I was referring to. The parachute money is there to allow clubs a window to realign their cost base to the much lower revenues they will earn in the future. Those that don't do that because they expect to get promoted often run into financial problems at the end of the 3 years because the debts have grown and suddenly the £50m assets they thought they had have become £10m assets that they deperately need to shift to get cash through the door and reduce costs. It's going to be an interesting few years. Hopefully we get back up, though of course staying up will still be a huge challenge as there will be fewer and fewer little clubs like us, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Norwich in that league.....
     
  20. K9 Hornet

    K9 Hornet Border Collie Dog

    and second prize is Andre Gray?
     
    Ybotcoombes likes this.
  21. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    They would always be keeping the majority of last seasons squad. There are very few, if any, cases where a club has gone down and they got rid of 2/3 or more of their playing squad (unless they were already in dire straits like Pompey). I think it’s obvious that they will try and mitigate losses in earnings by selling underperforming players with high profiles and fringe players on big wages.

    Anything more than that is a fire-sale which all the indications are, isn’t needed this summer. A sensible sell and recruit policy will be sufficient.
     
    Supertommymooney and hornetfan like this.
  22. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    They will obviously keep the "majority of the squad", to do otherwise would mean selling 13+ players.
    We started the year with debts and have taken out another loan. Our revenues drop by c£50m this year which I doubt will be significantly covered by relegation clauses. Add in the lost revenues from Cv19 and we will clearly need to raise significant sales revenues or accept that debt will increase....the latter is fine as long as you can pay it back....which is hard to do if you don't get promoted and all the parachute money has gone and in 3 years time your players are not then worth what they were....
     
  23. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    But I'm confused as to what you are suggesting we do then? It seems a bit that you're suggesting we do what you're arguing against?!

    No one is saying we go gung-ho for promotion in 12 months and to hell with the financial impact?
     
  24. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    Sarr chose to move to Rennes rather than Barcelona in 2017 because he did not think that he would get much first team action at Barcelona.
     
  25. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    So how can we over estimate how hard it might be to get promoted then?
     
  26. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I'm suggesting that we do sell 2/3 players that are the higher earners/higher potential fees so that we have a fair crack at promotion but don't let debt get out of control so that the only way of ever paying it back would be through promotion eg where AV got 2 summers ago. Selling Sarr for $40m+ would be one option. If we don't sell him, selling GD would be difficult at this point so we'd need to sell Doucoure/Pereyra/Gray maybe ? Of course we want to go for promotion but we must ensure we are still a going concern in 3 years time, not in administration. When TV money has dropped from £100m to £50m to £10m it's difficult to run at a profit and cashflow surplace on vastly reduced income, generating the cash needed to pay off sizeable debts incurred 3 years earlier.
     
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  27. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes but how old was he then ? His last team for which he was a regular are now in the champs league. I really doubt he sees his next step in development now as playing Wycombe in the championship.
     
  28. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    ???
     
  29. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Id suggest a 3rd party loan might put us in a good place cashflow wise but certainly puts us in a worse place overall.
     
  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    This is kinda the point I’m making - most people are suggesting we sell Doucoure, Gray, Pereyra and probably some others (Femenia, Success, Kabasele, Deeney...Deulofeu is obvs 50/50 as I doubt he wants to play in the Championship but his fitness may dictate he has to, for a few months at least anyway) - this shouldn’t be too difficult and would very likely mitigate having to sell Sarr. That’s what most/all have been suggesting so I’m unsure why there’s debate between you and others?!
     
  31. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Well you seem to be saying keeping all our players is underestimating how hard it might be to get promoted, so I’m curious as to what over estimating the task might look like?
     
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I think any loan does that unless you find a way to pay it back within the timescale of the loan. The loan is obviously the gamble on getting up in one year ideally, 2 at a stretch. If it goes beyond that, then the gamble of the loan likely becomes an issue.
     
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    agree. My gripe was with whoever wrote that article saying a loan puts us in a good place financially. It improves cashflow but deteriorates the overall longer term situation.
     
  34. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Sounds like something someone on this forum would write! ;)
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    TVOR my friend, you truly are the greatest of minds.
     
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