Is this as good as it gets under Pozzo?

Quite simple really, but seeing a few mentions recently of improvement on improvement each season has me wondering what people think.

Personally I think it is. When Gino first took over, it was hoped for that this would be dream scenario of potentially getting into Europe, Cup run etc, but we’ve combined it all into one season it seems.

 

A good thread started, but you're probably jumping the gun a little bit here.

We've not achieved anything yet. Mathematically we could actually still finish in 14th position, and lose the FA Cup final.

However, if we do finish 7th and win the cup, then it would be a difficult season to improve on, but you have to have dreams. You cannot or should not put a ceiling on ambition.

We could win the cup again, we could win the Europa League. There are still things we can achieve.

I think being considered as something more than a bit of a joke club is still something we've yet to achieve.

Even though we're 7th, I still think we are at full pelt in order to be there. We are probably overachieving, so in order to be a comfortable 7th, well clear of the other pretenders, is something I believe we can be.

 

We might get better, we might not. But in either circumstance I will say I told you so.

 

Lowest we can finish is 13th.
****, Wolves just scored.

 

Yes.

 

Check the table again. It's 14th....mathematically.

 

I'll let you look at the fixture list before bowing to my superior knowledge.

 

Oh well if you’re going to be scientific about it!!

 

We might finish 7th one year. If we're lucky.

 

I think we have another level to see potentially, but if it were to happen it would be a one or possibly two season thing.

I’ve suggested it in another thread, I could see a good run in the Europa League, and if you get to the last 8 then I guess anything could happen with a bit of luck, kind draw etc. Another good cup run and it’s even possible to break the top 6 (as a one off).

It comes down to the right blend of players who happen to be together at any one time . If the highly rated youngsters all turn up at the club at the same time, added to our established squad, then that’s when the next level can be reached.

It would only last a season or two because those players then get bought by bigger clubs and the times you can put together a ‘dream team’ are limited if you don’t spend big money.

I think it’s possible next season as it goes, but it all depends on the summer activity and what the club and Javi want.

 

This is probably about as good as it’s going to get under any owners we might have, not just the Pozzos. We’re never going to be able to compete on a consistent basis with the top 6, and we’re unlikely to frequently be in with a shout of winning cups, even if we continue to perform consistently well in the Prem.

 

Yes. Gino wants to make money. Do you get that from a cup run or the Europa League? No.

But you do get it from selling the best players at the club at a massive profit whilst making sure you just about stay in the PL every season.

 

Considering we're going to finish 9th and lose the final, no it's not as good as it gets

But without European football I imagine Doucs will go and probably Delia as well so next year won't be as decent

 

In the summer Pozzo will sell Doucoure. Possibly Pereyra. Gash like Navarro and Sema will arrive. Nobody will buy Okaka. No work permit for Cucho.

16th.

 

Or by selling the club and buying another Championship one.

 

Two Semas!

Imagine the response on the forum.

 

You’ve got the bigger picture.

 

We can do better as we will be able to attract better players and we can still get more out of who we have.

At the moment, whether we finish 7th or not, we have had a good season but with rarely really hitting our potential. A handful of players have done really well this season. Capoue has done well, and maybe Holebas, and Foster, and others have had good spells, but who else has had a great season? How many games have we honestly thought that our team played as well as we could?

There were plenty on here that believed that success for us would be perannually avoiding relegation and that competing for a Europa Cup place was a mere folly, as we are Watford, that is the best we can hope for, and anyone who thinks we are better than that are deluded, unrealistic and entitled.

Yet we have achieved that, and the FA Cup Final, with room to spare in terms of our potential. Gracia can also improve tactics-wise (in my opinion) and, whilst he has obviously created a far better team ethic, with far more consistent effort from the players, he has players who are mostly very inconsistent even in the basics - the amount of times our players give the ball away is mindblowing. I think it is a lack of confidence,

Confidence doesn't just happen, it builds with time. If we can stay in a similar position next year, our confidence will be be much higher and so will our performances and one or two of the top six will always be struggling for consistency themeselves.

Of course we can go better.

 

I'm interested to see the next iteration of the team under the Pozzos.

Seems to be we'll lose a couple of key players in the summer. We'll bring some new blood in and hopefully maybe some of the loans will join the main team.

But I think there may be a season of consolidation next year if we don't get to Europe. Top 10 and a decent cup run again.

I think we'll be big unknowns again though. And I'm happy with that.

 

I'm probably one of the few who isn't keen on us getting into Europe this year. This year has proved (to me anyway) that we really don't have much depth and Europe would mean even more fixtures and that could threaten our PL position. Consolidate in upper half of PL, then push on to become regular member of top 6 then Europe will come automatically. An awful lot will depend on close season sales/recruitment.

 

I'd ******* love to get Europa League, unless we do really well one year and get Champions League, what is the point for mid-table teams? Sadly I think we'll miss out on Europa now, and I think this is as good as it gets for a long time. At least one of Doucs/Geri/Pereyra will probably leave, and though we'll have a bit to spend, they'd prove difficult to properly replace. Cucho and Lukebakio could be interesting ones if all parties are interested in them coming home, but Doucs will leave a big hole in the midfield, unless we're exceptionally lucky, we wouldn't get in anyone as good as him

 

To be fair though, this season has provided enough highlights to last a lifetime. Last three seasons have been OK, with the occasional standalone highlight in amongst a lot of general mediocrity, but now I can say we've given this Premier League lark a good crack. We'll probably end up back in the Championship at some point in the not too distant future, but when that day comes (hopefully not 20/21!), there won't be nearly as much of a nagging feeling of what might have been as there would have been up to now

 

Not sure I get that comment Ron. We've used 25 players so far this season and have been consistently in the top half since before Christmas. It certainly feels like we've managed to get points in games where Javi has made changes from the bench or even rotated the starting XI a fair bit. I know our bench isn't stellar but with everyone fit it's more than good enough for our level. We have a lot of decent cover across the defence and midfield for sure.

Wolves, by contrast, have used only 19 players in the league. They're a team I'd say lack depth. Burnley likewise last season were a success built on a very small tight knit group of players. And it showed when this season started.

We would undoubtedly have to sign more players in the summer to be able to ensure we could fight properly on two fronts if we qualified for Europe. But I don't think it'd need anything too radical.

 

Talking about Pozzo "deciding to sell certain players to make profit/funds to re-invest" is only part of the story though.
It is clear that WFC's pitch to a significant number of players we are surprised sign for us is along the lines of "give us a couple of good seasons & should an adequate bid come in from a bigger club, you can go." So if someone like PSG really decide to bid £50 million for Doucoure, refusing to let him go would totally undermine that sales pitch. The trick is continuing to find the requisite replacements each season. In that context, the injury to Chalobah has been a major blow. And hopefully Quina's shoulder injury is not a full-blown dislocation as that also carries long-term implications; Danny Webber springs to mind.

 

Indeed fully agreed. Doucoure has earned his move in my view. This season has seen it all come together but the downside to the model is we sell the best assets after they have developed so it is hard to see how we can improve on our output this year.

I must say though that last summer’s transfer business doesn’t make me particularly confident about next season. If Doucoure and Delefeou moved on I think it’s a fair chance the recruitment team bring in more Sema/Navarro/Masina type squad flotsam than gems like Hughes/Chalobah/Kiko who were able to slot straight into the first team. We’ve signed plenty of duds the last few windows.

 

Yeah, this. I think this season is as good as it gets unless something radical happens. What more can we realistically hope for? The aim of 86 clubs in England is to get established in the Prem with a shot of Europe and a cup run, we're actually doing it. The top 6 are too far out of reach as each time we get a few players who can bridge that gap they will then leave, which the club have already said is the goal. Look at Southampton bringing through youth whilst finding bargains elsewhere playing them for a couple of seasons before they leave for bigger clubs (mainly Liverpool) they have done well to replace them but a poor couple of windows and bad manager choices came threats of relegation. We should absolutely embrace what is going on currently.

 

We have to let players move on when the big offers come in and they want to move, not just due to our sales pitch to new potential signings but also because it becomes counter-productive to force players to stay even though we have the legal ability to do so.
It will be almost impossible to improve on seasons like this. The better a season we have, the more our players will be in demand, the more we will sell and the more we will need to make sure we have replacements lined up. Our success over the next 3 seasons will not be based on GD, RP and AD, it will be based on how good their replacements are. The same issue that Soton had half a dozen seasons ago under Poch. We must replace our best players with those who are or have the potential to be similarly good, not Oulares, Semas, Massinas, Okakas, Zeegelaars etc etc.

 

I haven't written of Massina yet. He is showing signs of improvement.

 

That's not necessarily true. 2 or 3 of our players would attract interest, but I think the vast majority are playing for a club which is at the limit of their ability. That's quite a skill to do well with a squad that other clubs do not really want. By that, I mean clubs who are bigger and better than us.

We'll easily be able to keep our squad together next season. I liken Watford to Leicester when they won the league. They did it largely with a journeyman squad. They had 2 or 3 stars but that was it. Kante and Mahrez moved on but they retained all the other players they wanted to keep.

 

I thought he was much improved against Arsenal and Huddersfield, but was back to his old way against Southampton. Was caught badly out of position on a number of occasions and was easily beaten in a couple of challenges. I think he could be a decent enough player, but he's got a long way to go before ousting Holebas.

 

If I were Gino I would be looking at unlocking value by selling and repeating with another club. We all know he is in it to make money - he has achieved close to what he can with Watford.

Why not repeat again? Watford is near max value at moment and we are only a few poor signings/losses of key players away from relegation battles etc.

If he did fair play to him

 

Does anyone know what Gino thinks, wants, will do with his time or his money? If I were Gino I would not be me. I bet Gino's glad that he is not me. In the future this season will not be exceptional and our future offspring will laugh at all this talk of once in a lifetime experiences ...

 

Yes I don't understand his motivation. If it was purely financial a sale any time from the moment we secured survival under QSF would have made sense. They will never make much money from running WFC as a prem club, as the recent accounts show, and to fail to reinvest by taking profits out will risk relegation. Their value in WFC is all in owning an established prem club and as we know that can, and will one day, vanish overnight.

 

Are you the Barker from 5F that I stood next to at the FA cup final in 1984 ?

 

Nah, we still have the European cup run to come next season!

Pozzos are shrewd businessmen but as long as the money keeps rolling in from the TV rights and a big sale here and there, then there's no reason why things can't get better.