Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Vicarage Road, Aug 10, 2019.
Well if we don't get anything against West Ham and Newcastle....
He's not going to be sacked...…...yet.
Today was always going to be a tough match. At least we competed and it was a much more even contest than that debacle last week. Today's result and performance won't get him the sack. Performances and results like last week will.....if that continued of course.
The next two games will be vital, lose those two, then the writing will be on the wall I suspect.
We've only won twice since March and that was against relegated sides. No clean sheet in 17 games. It's all stacking up now.
Carrera looks like an Italian Eddie Howe.
I don’t get the abuse people are throwing around. If you think Javi can’t take us forward, fine. He’s not beyond all criticism. But it seems a lot of toys are out of the pram and some of the hissy fits are out of touch with reality. Last week was pretty dire, this week was much more promising but without a lucky break.
What was promising exactly?
We conceded a goal from awful defending... again, we failed to score or create many meaningful chances... again, the defence was a shambles (only Richarlison missing two absolute sitters saved us from another 3-0)... again, Deeney played 90 minutes... again, and did nothing (again) but hit our only reason chance straight at the keeper.
We look diabolical and the manager has no interest in changing up his tactics or the personnel.
We got a break, we didn't lose 5-0 like we could have/of.
I don’t think he deserves abuse. For me he just isn’t going to take us forward effectively. Against West Ham we will play the same formation and the forward line will be built around Deeney. It is all Gracia knows. It possibly would keep us up on today’s performance as well but the brave decision is to fire him.
I'm never one for needlessly getting rid of a head coach but recent results have been very poor. Garcia's tactics are so predictable I literally write us off when I see the team sheet.
Despite all this, Gracia is not to blame for an aging squad.
He's partly to blame. Is he telling the owners what we need? Doubt it as he's always banging about being happy with what he has. Being the good grinning yes man.
I genuinely don’t see as much scope for change as a lot on here. All these daydream line ups and formations people come up with are fine on a forum but that’s about it. The idea seems to be we should just keep shuffling the pack until a winning combination falls out. I also think the system we do play is much more fluid than people give it credit for.
He does pick the team! True enough.
Would complete his North London full set.
Seeing Deeney as droppable and viewing Gomes as absolutely last resort would be a good message to the squad before even looking at formation.
Its a racing certainty that Gracia will start with the same team next week. I suspect the best we will get against Spam is a draw.
I'd genuinely put Deeney in your 'blame Gino' column. The owners have allowed him to become unimpeachable. He's on a mega wage, is the talisman and figurehead of the playing side of the club and obviously captain too. Last time a manager dropped him (Wally) he got fat and stunk the place out. Any attempt to move on from Deeney would need a concerted effort from the top down in my opinion. I wouldn't blame any head coach for not thinking it's his jobsworth to have to deal with it alone.
Why does this thread exist when there is a Gracia Out thread already?
Of course Deeney is droppable. To say he isn't is avoiding blaming the real culprit, Gracia.
This is the guy who left Deulofeu on the bench for a cup semi final.
Fair. But substituting Deeney when he is contributing nothing would at least show the manager has a modicum of authority over our very average talisman.
Well yes. That is how a new manager could get easy wins. We all know Gracia will start Deeney against West Ham.
Whatever way you look at it the current tactical set up is not working. That is a fact. We are on a 7 game losing streak where we have struggled to score goals and have conceded a boat load, and are playing hit and hope football.
This formation and some of the players are not untouchable, but Gracia seems oblivious to that.
It's 6 defeats in a row. The Southampton game was saved by a 90th minute Gray goal and we pinched a lucky draw.
Oh, not to worry then!
Javi is the head coach. He doesn't get much involved in player recruitment. Gino doesn't get involved in team selection. Or shouldn't.
Therefore Javi should simply see the light that is blindingly obvious to most of us on here. Drop Troy from the starting line-up and put him on the bench (for at least a bit) therefore allowing for a change in formation utilising others in the squad.
If Gino were to be interfering in team selection on the q.t. though and insisting on Troy starting (for whatever reason) then up with that Javi should not put and he should resign. A lot of money riding on that decision though! Is there the vaguest possibility that that does indeed go on and that was the thing that p.ssed the snake off?
If Javi can do neither of dropping Troy or resigning then he's singularly lacking in cojones.
If he really can't see the blindingly obvious then he's lost the plot.
The problem with dropping Deeney for yesterday was that Gray put in a master class of underachievement against Brighton. You would also presume that Welbeck was not 100% ready for 90 mins. That just left Success to replace him.
If Welbeck can reach full 90 minute fitness (or even 60 minutes) Troy will get dropped.
We need to get Big Sam in, proven record in the Prem, safe pair of hands that will steady the ship. He did very well to turn Evertons season around a couple of years back and got them to 8th place.
I bet he doesn’t. There is not the faintest hint that Deeney is the player he will drop.
Luke's choice of di Francesco is one that has been around before. Far more tactically flexible. Or Eduardo Berizzo I have often mentioned. Builds from the back but sides with flair. Sebastian Beccacece is unfortunately unlikely to move given that he is embarked on a project to return Independiente to the glory days once again.
I’m sure you’re correct but just not in football
It's not just about selection of the untouchable Deeney (that's another thread..).
Pre season was a perfect opportunity to try something else (433...different players...) and the obstinate window licker showed no interest in anything other than his tried, tested and untrustworthy way.
I think he may be gone after West Ham. He’s a nice guy, that comes across time and again. But when things are going badly, I think being a nice guy counts against him.
He looked like death warmed up in the post-match interview on MotD.
If you look at Javi's win percentage in his time with us it bears comparison with most managers we have had - considerably better than QSF, Mazzarri or Silva so if Pozzos are taking a longer view his record is quite good. Would we find someone who would be able to do better with this squad?
There are two problems - this is the start to the season and if we are bottom after 8 games with 0 to 3 points can we really believe the Pozzos won't replace? Secondly he is beginning to show an increasing lack of flexibility and of having one or two "untouchables" Deeney not least. Maybe instead of replacing him the Pozzos need to make him work with some others to develop more ideas and the ability to make meaningful changes during a game.
Replacing a manager is a drastic and not always successful step.
6-8 games minimum.
Gracia rightly has some credit in the bank.
But Gino wouldn't risk us going down just to be kind to him.
Our squad has obvious weaknesses but should be good enough to stay up with a competent manager.
Gracia did very well for most of last season. We are just two games into this season. Gracia is supposed to have input into the buying of players, but the decisions to buy are not made by him. Of course he's a yes-man, the Pozzos have made it very clear that a coach has to buy into their overall playing and training style or he doesn't get the job. There is no scope for him to step out of line. But the yes-man stuff is not an ego-thing with the Pozzos; it is a deliberate approach to coaching.
Our failure to sign a couple of quality defenders is not his fault.
Moshiri spending £408,000,000 since taking over at Everton and they just about squeezed a win over us and yet we are one of the poorest clubs in the Premier League.
It is just too early to say our season is a failure.
Where Gracia will or will not earn his corn is in drilling some more organisation into our defence. That defence worries me, but it's a moot point whether it is Gracia's fault or not. Coaches are sitting ducks for criticism and often are used to deflect it away from owners and indeed players.
Perhaps it sounds more graceful in Norwegian.