Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Vicarage Road, Aug 10, 2019.
i dont think soo
I tend to agree, Deeney does slow our attacks down. I’d still like him on the bench, as I think he can still make an impact. I’d prefer Wellbeck or Gray, as they have more pace and movement. To say it was easy for the Brighton defence to mark Deeney yesterday was an understatement.
After yesterdays performance I can see us getting 0 points out of our first four fixtures and Javi being shown the door. I kind of forgave the squad for the end of last season due to their heads being turned by the FA Cup Final but maybe something is going on behind the scenes.
Something changed after the Wolves semi final. The players seemed to have an attitude transplant overnight.
Javi needs to put it right or he's not going to last five games if the crap we saw yesterday continues.
I think the club will be more supportive of Gracia and will give him more time. But there’s clearly a problem, and we all can see it.
It’s the general malaise that sweeps through the club out of nowhere. This always seems to happen to Watford. At any moment they just stop trying and this always costs the manager his job.
Gracia really got the players believing last season, and we got off to a flying start. They had a “run through brick walls” attitude. That start carried us right through the season. We’re not going to have that now. Maybe the players have stopped believing?
Because it was such a stupid thing to do to play a narrow formation against a congested 3 at the back, that’s why. It was so stupid as to be an elementary mistake. Then when it’s clear to everyone that punting balls up to Deeney isn’t working, to stubbornly carry on punting balls up to Deeney. I’m shocked a professional football coach thinks that was the right thing.
The minute any athlete or anyone in their workplace for that matter,stops working to their maximum,there is a problem.
This clearly is the case.
The result can happen but the manner of it coupled with last season's decline,is very concerning.
I don’t think it was a bad opening move. I think at home, first game of the season, you’ve got to back your favoured tactical plan to succeed. Changing before kick off to match a similar level opponent wouldn’t be a great vibe to give. But when it’s not working after 20 or so minutes, and the game is still 0-0, then is the time to change it up. Make the opposition react. Instead we were just frozen in shape and, once Brighton realised we were a paper tiger, the win was theirs.
Indeed. False sense of security for the rest of the division. Just give us the title now.
I like Gracia. But he played Mariappa all last season who wasn’t good enough. Do you think he would drop Foster or Gomes for either of the other 2?
He isn’t a ruthless manager. He’s nowhere near it.
We laugh at Silva because he sulks when he doesn’t get his way. But what we don’t focus on is our own manager - he should have been screaming and shouting for quality CB’s all summer. No one is kicking off about adding Dawson - but he’s hardly an obvious step change in quality is he.
I think a lot of fans have been blinded by the signing of Sarr and Welbeck (who are great additions) and not realised just how bad we are at the back.
How is two different players on the bench going to improve how our first XI on the pitch perform?
Centre-Backs have undoubtedly gone up in price.
But I have to say - if the scouting network that is supposedly ‘second to none’ can’t identify quality reinforcements for 3 or 4 windows, then they either aren’t as good as being suggested - or there is serious problems at recruiting/management level who can’t see the issues that everyone else has seen for 18/24 months now.
This is part of the reason why it’s so stupid for the PL to shut the transfer window before everyone else.
Why do you say Bachman is the answer?
I've been regularly suggesting we might soon need to replace Foster since last April already (and also that it would be a fair shout to give Bachmann the chance to overtake him).
"Perhaps as Foster is 36 now and seemingly starting to make increasing numbers of errors, the club are already thinking about getting a replacement for him as well for the not too distant future."
"Bachmann should be given a chance in the cups to see if he can replace Foster."
"However, in January I wouldn't be surprised if we also needed a new first choice GK and new first choice LB, in case Foster and Holebas' declines turn out to be irreversible."
"Foster was nervy for the last couple of months last season, and Heaton is a minor improvement."
"As for Foster, I'm concerned about him for next season. He was one of our worst performers at the end of the last one, and that's saying something. Combined with his supposed inability to train fully due to his ongoing knee issues I wouldn't be surprised if another gk was called upon sooner rather than later. Bachmann could well be ready to step up already though."
"Foster - had yet another worrying moment misjudging coming off his line vs a quick player, from which we almost conceded."
"Foster continues to make some erratic decisions in coming off his line"
"Oh, and Foster incorrectly coming off his line and getting caught out again."
(also notice the running theme in Foster being dreadful when coming off his line)
I think it's a little unfair to start blaming Foster, although I do agree he does tend to come out needlessly at times. However, that just goes to show how often he's left completely exposed with a striker baring down on him and no one else around. He has to do something in this situation.
I would say, he shouldn't be put in this position so often, then he wouldn't need to come rushing out all the time.
Javi needs to drop the 4222 it’s very one dimensional and can be nullified easily. I get why he used it last year because he believed we didn’t have any out and out wingers. Roll on this year and we now have people who can play wide so a change of formation is needed . I think a change to 4141 to match Man City would be the best move and if Javi really believes deulofeu is the striker he wants to be then start him on his own up front. It works for city with Aguero and Jesus, there’s no need to lump the ball up to Deeney/Gray. If we matched city’s formation (based on west hand fixture) our lineup would/could look like this:
GK - Foster
RB - Kiko
CB - Dawson
CB - Cathcart
LB - Holebas
DMF - Capoue
RW - Sarr
CM - Doucoure
CM - Pereyra
LW - Welbeck
ST - Deulofeu
This formation can easily switch to 433 with Welbeck and start pushing up with Deulofeu.
If everyone is fully fit, then you have to look at the squad and ask yourself who has to play. Once you've got that answer, then you can work a formation around that.
I'm happy to play with a back four. I think that works best for us, but I'm not going to bother putting names in the brackets for that, as they are much of a muchness.
For the other players, those who have to play are Sarr (his transfer fee demands he has to start), Welbeck (his quality and reputation demands he has to start), Deulofeu (again his quality demands he has to start), Doucoure and Capoue have to start, so that only really leaves one more space for a central midfielder, and you have plenty of decent choices here in Hughes, Pereyra, Cleverley & Quina who can play an advance central role.
For me we have to play a 4-2-1-3 formation. It's the only one which will bring the best out of Hughes and utilises Sarr, Welbeck and Deulofeu.
That's what we liked about the Joka
Yeah but he rapped in preseason. That's a new contract right there.
No. I don't think he would. Doesn't mean it can't be discussed though
Think it was obvious to most at the ground that going through the middle with Deeney against Duffy and Dunk was never going to work. Mystified that on such a windy day and Deeney being completely ineffectual that Foster kept on kicking long rather than building up from the back
Javi will be safe if he is ruthless. Goodbye Mr Nice Guy. Drop Deeney, oh but he's the captain, so what? If he's not good enough he shouldn't be playing. Bachmann needs to be on the bench rather than Gomes who is older than my nan. He needs to be upfront with the players. Tell them to buck up their ideas and start performing, or show them they're not doing enough by dropping them.
He won't drop Deeney. He's in love with him. The fact he's completely useless isn't a factor in Gracia's mind.
It's worrying that after 2 goals down the players heads drop. Also whilst I really hope we turn things around; Javi's tactics are too predictable, he seriously needs to rethink inverted 442.
Good point. Increasingly, what Graham Taylor started is now the norm. And yes, Gracia does need everybody to be match-ready.
Don't get carried away. That's just silly. Look at the alternatives.
Yeah, I'd take both Success and Okaka over Deeney at this point. Deeney offers absolutely zero, so it really doesn't matter how crap the other two are.
At least Success can run. Deeney is an absolute cart horse.
Yes - because it changes the options: Sarr is quick and we have very few fast players.
Yeah, but Success and Okaka continue to disappoint, again and again.
Success has never been given a run of games to show what he can or can't do. A striker can't turn form on or off like a switch.
Success did alright last season at times. I remember the game against Huddersfield (I think) where he was pretty dominant.
Then he gets dropped and disappears.
I'm not sure on this too. A handful of games at League 2 level and 25 for Kilmarnock last season and he's supposed to drop into the premier league like a seasoned professional?
Completely agree. Everyone's pre-season shopping list had 2 CBs and probably a full back on each side as the priority. We only got Dawson, who was absolute cack yesterday.
Shame didn't stump up the cash and sign Heaton rather than give Gomes a new contract
True but he clearly isn't doing enough in training to dislodge Deeney who didn't win anything once again in the air .
Okaka would be the best option ... if he could stay fit !