Investing club

Discussion in 'Yellow Pages' started by hornmeister, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Off the back of @Diamond's suggestion in the Crypto currency thread I've set up a watchlist of interesting investments. http://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/cryptocurrencies.50856/

    Ethereum & Bitcoin Trackers as well as the Sirius Minerals fund @Optimistichornet has identified. 1 unit of each.

    If I can clarify tax implications, the watch list does well, and logistics can be ironed out the next couple of months I might open up an investing club.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

  3. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    we started at informal one when I was at sixth form. Lost every penny within 6 months amid bitter recrimination. We were bigger nerds than those **** in dead poets society - at least one of them kissed a girl.

    it taught me a valuable lesson though I suppose.
     
  4. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    another one to add to the watchlist:

    Petra Diamonds. Had a really rough last 6 months, however 2018 promises good things. I would expect them to return around about GBX100 before june/july. Recently opened a new mine, and seem to be resolving their issues abroad. I have lost money on them in the last three months, but am holding on as I think they will revert to stronger results in the new year.
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  5. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Diamonds, mmm, not the most ethical of investments.
     
  6. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Its not like they are blood diamonds.

    You do raise an interesting point though; how does everyone feel about sin stocks?

    Theoretically sin stocks are the best way to make money long term. They tend to be recession proof. There is always a need for alcohol, gambling, guns and ammo. However you are potentially profiting on other peoples misery?
     
  7. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    11% down today
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Only on the basis of the crypto though. We need to add a few more to the watchlist as the crypto adds massive volatility.
     
  9. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Currency Trading, it is a winner!

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  10. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    The more I've looked into this, the more complicated it's going to be from a taxation and accounting point of view and in that respect I think it's probably not worth setting up.

    As a thread for discussing investment however I think it has legs.

    I purchased some Sirrus Mineral off the back of Opti's recommendation and a bit of my own research. Losing £20 as of tonight so I#ll be coming round later Opti to collect:p
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  11. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Had a look at Petra diamonds also. Not so sure there's some iffy announcements published about labour disruptions, seizures and breaches of covenants. Think I'll pass.
     
  12. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Not interested in speculation on stocks and shares, but I would like to volunteer for the iffy labour disruption that's upsetting investors.
     
  13. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Horses for courses obviously. Stocks, shares and funds are not for everyone. but we can also discuss deposit & savings account rates, current account cashback etc.

    Labour disruption is good. It halts production raises prices and means you don't have to pay the worker when they're on strike. The only people hurt are the workers and the consumers as the company owners simply raise prices to cover costs.
     
  14. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Anyone got any good tips.

    I've returned my Cryptocurrency investment so have a little cash floating for reinvestment. Happy with higher risk.
     
  15. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    So while you guys are making all your cyber money or whatever it is.. Who's losing out on something?

    Only from experience i tend to feel that in financial matters if one is gaining there's normally someone losing at the same time.
     
  16. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Depends. You could be making money from future debt.

    Supply and demand more people buying than selling of a finite or restricted supply and the price goes up. It's gambling or speculation. Risk reduces with knowledge about what you're buying.

    Where shares and funds regarding companies are concerned, in addition to speculation on price rises driven by simple demand they may pay some profit back into dividends which are kickbacks to shareholders. A successful company makes a profit, pays a good dividend which means people buy the shares (to get those dividends) which raises the price further.

    There is of course a risk. the Crypto may go pop if a security flaw is discovered or it's banned, a company may go bust and your shares end up worthless. Generally greater risk equals greater reward. The trick is buying low and selling high.
     
    Stevohorn likes this.
  17. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    I would have a look at pharmaceuticals or technology shares. I invested in Alliance Pharma before Christmas, up 10% since then. Ubisoft have been a big favourite share of mine in recent times.
     
  18. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Funny you should say that. I have these magic beans...
     
  19. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    90% of day traders on the stock market lose money.

    It's the same answer everywhere, really.
     
  20. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    I was advised recently not to invest in the crypto currency itself (i.e., don't buy bitcoins) but buy in to the company behind bitcoin. As I still find the whole crypto currency concept utterly bewildering I have done neither, which is probably a mistake I can add to my long list of speculation blunders!
     
  21. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    The issue with investing in the currency directly is the hurdles in setting up accounts with traders and the possibilities of them being difficult to deal with or even disappearing when wanting to recover your cash.
    You really need to know what you're doing and chose the right people otherwise it's an added risk to a risky investment.

    Investing in the Tracker ETFs via a SIPP or GIA through Highstreet or established companies like Hargreaves Lansdown, AJ Bell etc is the cautions way to go.

    As an aside I work for an IFA and none of our clients are touching Crypto with a bargepole although I've had a small punt myself. It is gambling not investing as long as people are aware they could lose the lot with no safety net. The added risks have at the moment equated to significant returns. The technology suggests this will continue, but it's not guaranteed.

    It's also volatile as hell. Value can vary up to 15% during the day. buying and sellign instantly and getting up to the minute pricing is essential. Any delays could cost big time.
     
  22. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    Interesting. Thanks.
     
  23. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    I agree with Meister, I have found the ETFs useful. I have also got a small amount of actual cryptocurrency, less than a grand all in all. I got it as a bit of an experiment, and although I would be disappointed if I lost it all it wouldn't affect me going forward. I think that it the best way to go with cryptocurrency, only spend what you could afford to lose. Its not safe at all, and I think you have to be quite wary.

    What did you look to invest your ethereum returns in meister? I put mine into a special situations European fund and also into an asia first fund. Should be looking healthy by the end of the year.
     
  24. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    All in my sipp some of it I funnelled into Newton High Income which pays out monthly enough to cover SIPP charges and left over added to regular contributions I then invest as and when I see opportunities. Generally topping up funds that are currently making a loss to mitigate those losses.

    I do have about 5% sitting in cash at the moment though that I'd like to get working for me.
     
  25. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    I’ve done nicely out of p2p lending over the last 5 years.

    More an alternative to cash in the building society than 10 bagger start up investment.

    Different risk/return profiles available.

    My main one is Ratesetter. Around 6% for 5 years. Now ISArable.
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  26. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    It's something I considered but I think I missed the boat now. 5 years too late. Theres so many people in it that the rates available don't really justify the risk imho. Something like a structured deposit could offer up to 6% or so pa with no risk to capital.
     
  27. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Just had a small punt in Dignity plc.
    They provide funeral cars and my thinking people will continue to die and it balances my inverstment in pharmaceuticals.

    Directors have just sold off £14M worth of stock at £9 in advance of a profits warning - which is dodgy imho, but the stock has dropped to £7. It's a long term investment as the company is restructuring and cutting costs. Good value imho.



    *please note I'm not qualified, this is not advice or a recomendation and is a speculative punt on my part. Investment is at investors risk.
     
  28. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Had a small punt on Amazon and Netflix might see a spike with respect to Premiership TV rights if they get them.

    My thinking is that Sky & BT have now struck a deal to share channels. They might not compete so hard for rigths and they might be nicked by a digital provider. Amazon has already got ATP tennis rights so live sport streaming is of interest to them in pushing prime membership.
     
  29. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    So A punt that didn't work out, yet. There's still two PL packages available, both multichannel simultaneous broadcast with an announcement today. They didn't meet their reserve so the winner will be seen as getting a bargain. May be worth a flutter.

    See how sky went at the end of Tuesday when confirmation of their bids being successfully went:
    [​IMG]

    Current consensus at HL is strong buy. I'll pass as I'm backing the other sides.
     
    Optimistichornet likes this.
  30. New to this thread. Did have a bit of a laugh about the idea of a WFC investment club.

    So Mr Undeniable Truth, you are claiming that you are entitled to 10% of a £1.5m profit made by "a WFC forums investment club"
    Yes that's right. And the money has been embezzled by a bunch of crooks i thought were my friends !!!
    Right. And this club was run by a Mr "Meister". That right ?
    Yes. As in the beer without the "Hoff" at the start.
    Right. So the Hoff was involved too ?
    No.
    So you just transferred your money to a Barclays account which you are told has since been closed with funds moved out to Nicaragua
    Yes that's right
    And the account was run by this "Mr Hoffmeister" ?
    No, there's no Hof......yes that's right
    Do you know his real name and address ?
    Er, No. But i do know that Rookery Dad, Arakel, UEA Hornet, Optimistic hornet, and Clive of the Kremlin and Lloyd were all in on it.
    I see. Are those their real names ? At least we should be able to track down a Clive in the Kremlin. Can't be too many of those, ha ha.
    No. Well I guess Lloyd could be ?
    First name or second name ?
    Er
    You're a chartered accountant - that right ?
    Yes
    And an idiot ?
    Yes, correct.
     
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  31. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    On no account must any of you inform my brother of your wealth.
    He will find it,steal it and spend it before you can say Edmund Blackadder.
    He is to budgeting as Medea is to childcare.
    Beware,he's had 80k from Mother in the last 6 years.
     
    zztop likes this.
  32. So....IBB.... this mother of yours....is she looking to invest in a WFC forums investment/Cryptocurrency vehicle ? Guaranteed returns of at least 20% a year ? She could recover that £80k very very quickly. More for you too. She's not on the forum (as far as we know...Moog??) but we could make a special exception ??
     
  33. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Lmao. Your first post had me in absolute stitches truth!

    I think to go in on an investment club there need to be very stringent rules in place and access conditions. Personally not necessarily something I am comfortable with. I do however like to read and share insights.

    Anyway stock market took a bit of a hammering last week, I lost nearly 2 grand of profit but took the opportunity to buy into a couple more positions.

    One is a bit of an interest rather than anything else. I think Elon Musk is the saviour of the human race. Unfortunately you can’t invest in spacex directly as it is a private company. However Alphabet the holding company behind google etc own 10% of space x. So I bought a position in them whilst the market was down.

    I also bought a small position in a pharmaceutical company that my friend works for. Celgene has recently been acquiring other smaller companies, and unfortunately had a couple of unsuccessful drug trials. However there are things in the pipeline so I’m curious about long term gain.

    In my other notable investments Sirius minerals continues to sit at around about a 20% loss since I first invested, but every month I increase my position a little. In 2021 I expect this share price to increase dramatically, I’ll be rolling in it.

    Petra diamonds continue to struggle, and I don’t see an improvement any time soon. Going to have to hold this for a long time.

    If I get time later I’ll post an in depth appraisal of my current holdings.
     
  34. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    LF Woodford Income Focus 38.6%

    So this fund is my largest holding by quite some way. Its currently operating at a small loss of about 2% (prior to last weeks blip it had been 4% up) although I get a dividend payout regularly. It is a long term investment, and I don't intend to remove the money from here for at least 5 years. It is quite volatile in the short term, but for a long term investment it is quite sound. Neil Woodford has always been solid in the past, and although he has struggled in recent years I still back him long term.

    iShares Emerging Markets Equity Index 12.8%

    As the name suggests this focuses on sectors in emerging markets such as India and Asia. It can be quite volatile, however with Brexit and the US markets liable to rapid changes over the next twelve months I decided to move a proportion of funds into this area. So far this is about 8% up on the whole.

    HL Select UK Growth Shares 11.5%

    A Hargreaves Lansdowne fund this started last year. I invested quite a bit into this fund which focuses on UK companies. It has been a pretty good success for me, and has actually benefited from Brexit as a large number of its companies reside in the FTSE 250. Currently 10% up, but before the blip was around 15% up.

    First State Asia Focus 6.72%

    This is another fund I selected in Asia. I have only recently opened this position, and its running at a small 2% loss.

    HSBC FTSE 250 Index 6.71%

    The FTSE250 had a great year in 2017, and I saw gains of up to 15% in December. It has slipped back to 10% at the moment, but I'm pretty happy with this position for now.

    FP CRUX European Special Situations 4.75%

    Another new position I opened in January. Despite Brexit there are many interesting opportunities in the European Market this year. Will be interesting to see how this does throughout 2018. Currently 2% down.

    LF Woodford Equity Income 4.57%

    Another Neil Woodford fund, and the one position that I will be looking to move when it gets back in the green. I feel like I have too much exposed with Woodford in similar markets. I will close this small position and probably look to buy more Sirius Minerals and B2 Gold Corp. Currently 8% down.

    Sirius Minerals PLC 4.31%

    So currently running at a loss, but long term this is the most exciting share I have come across. Sirius Minerals are in the process of building the largest potash mine in the UK. It has government backing and more importantly funding. Sometimes these projects lose momentum, but the news coming out of the Sirius camp is consistently positive. Despite this investor sentiment remains poor and share price is low. The main reason behind this is that the company will actually not be making any potash until 2021. That being said I will continue to increase my position in this over the next few years. Currently 20% down on my initial investment.

    Petra Diamonds LTD 2.87%

    My worst single investment by a long way. I invested in Petra Diamonds when it suffered a large downturn after breaching debt covenants last year. It was either going to rebound or continue to drop. Unfortunately for me it continued to drop on the back of further bad news. Diamond shipments were seized and it then suffered strikes at its mines. At one point, I was 60% down on my investment. Recently better news has come to the fore, and I still remain positive of reaching my initial target sell price. However I am likely to have to hold for 12 months longer than I initially intended. Currently running at a 30% loss.

    Alliance Pharma 1.92%

    A really good little investment this one. Only opened it in December and already running at a 12% gain. I will probably just allow it to do its thing for the foreseeable future as the company is making all the right noises.

    B2Gold Corp 1.91%

    Another small position, but one I am optimistic for. B2Gold is a Canadian gold miner, run by a board of executives who have history of starting up profitable mining companies and then selling them for big bucks. I expect the same to happen with B2Gold. Was hit heavily in the dip and dropped back to a 1% profit.

    Alphabet Inc 1.52%

    Not really a financial investment for me, more of an interest. I have for a long time admired Elon Musk, and I think his entrepreneurial spirit is incredible. Unfortunately there is no way to buy into SpaceX directly. However Alphabet the company behind Google amongst others, does own a stake in it, hence why I bought these shares. I will probably never sell them. Currently running at a 1.6% loss thanks to the American market volatility in recent weeks.

    Premier African Minerals 0.3%

    I know I said earlier that Petra was my worst investment, to be honest this one runs it close. However my exposure is so small that I'm really not concerned. It was a bit of a gamble. Premier African Minerals mines tungsten and lithium, and has several small mining projects in Africa. It had some very promising reads on some test mines and the general consensus was that it should regain some of its share price. Instead it absolutely tanked. Never mind. Lesson learned. 67% loss.

    XBT Provider Ab 0.26%

    I havn't included my cryptocurrency holdings in this assessment, but this could probably go in there. It has been very good to me and actually the gains from this covered my ill judged Premier African Minerals venture. I sold my gains for profit at Christmas time and reinvested the profits into one of my funds. I still hold some units in this fund, but at this point I'm playing with the houses money. Happy days! Will hold onto this for the next year. Is down since I reduced my position by about 30%.

    Celgene Corp 0.26%

    A really minor investment in a friends pharmaceutical company. Got some interesting products getting launched next year. Might increase my stake in the next few months. Volatile American markets in the last week mean this is down by about 8%.

    Money to Invest 1%

    Not sure at the moment what to do with this, I will probably put it towards Sirius Minerals.

    OVERALL
    Despite recent turbulent market conditions I am running at a very small profit in the last 12 months. In improved conditions my portfolio is usually at a 6% overall profit. I am quite happy at the moment, and will look to increase several positions in the near future.
     
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  35. Meh!

    Meh! Pre-Dictator

    Can I turn £1 into £100,000?
     

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