Hiring The Xisco. Luck Or Genius?

This is not a question about whether Xisco is a good coach. He has got the job done.

Do we think Gino/Dux got lucky with Xisco's appointment, or was it a stroke of genius?

 

Pure luck.

Glad he's here though.

 

I think the most important thing, in this age of player power, is that the players like the coach and want to play for him.

It's clear that Munoz is very likeable and eager to succeed. I think that is what our talented but dysfunctional squad needed when it was apparent Ivic wasn't getting them to work together.

Whether Gino saw that or just got lucky is only something he can answer!

 

Suspect it was a bit of both

 

It’s how the Pozzo’s work. They often look for players/managers who no one has heard of, but where they see potential and they roll the dice. Where it doesn’t work e.g Ivic they get criticised and where it does work e.g Xisco people question whether they got lucky. The Xisco appointment was gutsy, because had it failed they would have left themselves wide open to criticism, and the entitled mob would surely be calling for them to go ( despite the success they have had)

 

Bit of both. On one hand there is a huge element of luck, because he had barely any experience and what he did have was in a complete backwater, it would be completely impossible to know how that would translate to our overall circumstances.

Also the fact he was a relatively decent player means sod all. All managers were players once, more often than not the best managers weren’t particularly great players, and being a good/great player doesn’t automatically translate into being a good manager. Obviously players outnumber managers by about 30 to 1, not all players become managers and not all managers are good managers at that. Having been a half decent player is just a pre-requisite of being a manger, like you have to be a kid before you’re an adult.

The flip side is the bit you can consider skill is in fact the unknown element. There were plenty of well know managers that are always linked when out job comes up, people like Gary Monk, Paul Cook etc. etc. You could argue that their abilities and ceilings are pretty well known, they’re experienced but unlikely to pull any trees up for you. Munoz was such an unknown that his upside potential was always greater than a safe pair of hands, so like the comment above the skill is in rolling the dice on something that has greater risk/reward.

 

I expect like players they have built up a dossier on most coaches they could entice here. With the exception of Zola, the bloke who went off with heart problems, Silva and Pearson, I had never heard of any of the coaches. But I only really take an interest in the English professional game.

So I doubt it was luck that they found him, maybe luck that he found a way to get a tune out of our squad.

I am glad we did not get a “Paul Cook”, he arrived at Ipswich saying automatic promotion was his aim. They have not even made the playoffs.

 

So luck then.

 

I used to think that up to and including Mazzari, I assumed he was their end game. After that I changed my mind and think it’s just completely scattergun now, Silva only got the job for his brief bit with Hull, I doubt he was on their radar. Ivic was up against Struber who’d had a brief bit of ‘success’ with Barnsley. I think their decision making on managers is very much based on the here and now and present circumstances.

 

I’ve been critical of Pozzo and Dux since the summer after the FA Cup final - it’s been discussed to death about the mistakes made .... however I think the past 2 appointments made sense. Ivic was a disciplinarian who was handed a very difficult squad with players injured and some wanting to leave, others disruptive etc. I can understand his appointment and I don’t think Xisco would of fared much better in that situation...... off the pitch I think Ivic may have set the foundations a bit, but a consequence of this was player moral, he failed to keep moral up and that was reflected on the pitch, it was awful, pub football. I think Pozzo and Dux recognised the need for someone more personable to come in someone who could connect and galvanise the team, remove the tactical shackles and get the players enjoying their football..... they did that by getting Xisco in - the team has achieved what we set out to do superbly well in terms of results. However I do feel that performances have been pretty poor still and I haven’t enjoyed that many matches - the most complete performance for me was away at Norwich and that was excellent, that’s an exception to the norm. We struggle with teams who try and stop us playing, that are tough and uncompromising. I think our performances under Ivic were that dire that the leap to where we are now is big and Xisco gets massive credit for that in a short space of time..... but we are still at the functional level .... we win because individually we are superior and that has plastered over where we are as a team, a unit. It should also be said that we have one this without a recognised centre forward and that would help massively ..... so I think it is a stroke of genius in the appointment. I think tactically he appears to have flaws but he’s managed about 60 games in his career ..... but he doesn’t have all the players needed imo even at Championship level. Let’s see what more time working with the squad over the summer brings. I really hope he succeeds with us as he gets Watford, he’s made huge family sacrifices and put his all into our club. I am fully behind him and I hope Gino and Dux give him a squad that can compete in the Prem next season.

 

I would say this has to go down as a Gino genius masterstroke. No one knows how a coach will turn out, but the board went for character rather than coaching knowledge and it worked. It was exactly what was needed in the moment. We had the best squad in the league, so dropping in a positive, humble character, was exactly the right thing to do. At the time I was dismissive of the appointment, and I'm still not convinced, but hindsight has proved the owner got this one spot on.

The owner has to be given credit for getting us promoted this season. They screwed up the Premier League through complacency and incompetence, and they probably took a big gamble with one last throw of the dice, but it paid off.

Call it lucky? Well, the owners hired Munoz from complete obscurity. Probably the most left-field coaching appointment they have ever made. I don't think that's luck, I cannot be. It's Gino and chums at their ultimate best.

Now we're back in the big time it going to be interesting to see if they really learned lessons of last season, and will do things differently next season in order to comfortably stay up. I think they can do this, but it will mean getting 90% of signings and other major decisions correct.

 

Less than that, 37 games! His current ability as a coach is certainly up for debate, but he is basically learning on the job. If the thinking was that we had the squad and that we needed a manager who would be pally with the players after the cold Ivic, then I have to say, good choice. I was convinced Ivic would be a success, and who knows, maybe without Deeney's influence he could have been, but alas Deeney stayed, and he struggled with the human side of things...

 

The success is down to how bad the finishing it at midday championship teams rather than the manager's tactical nous. We were under the cosh in most matches.

 

Agreed. They are just as clueless as anyone else. Their reputation will never ever recover from the QSF appointment.

 

Ivic struggled with his inability to drop his ‘win 1-0’ fixation once the difficult early weeks had passed. Not only is that approach fraught with risk in English football in general, with 1-0 so easily becoming 1-1 or worse, the excessive caution inherent in that philosophy totally nullified the members of our squad that really set us apart from the Champ run of the mill. Having Sarr and JP in the Championship and playing ultra-cautious non-football was criminally negligent of him.

 

A combination.

It had a lot of potential to fail, and a fair amount to work. Pozzo was lucky it did.

 

Spotted he had potential, lucky it worked out.

 

pure dumb luck. In 18 months, this will all be forgotten and we will rue sticking with the idiot.

 

As with a great deal of business decisions , it’s a mixture of both . You have to give credit to Duxbury and Gino in making the brave decision of going with someone who has obvious potential, but was completely unproven. But of course it could have gone horribly wrong .

Running a football club is not like football manager in reality. Some of your decisions might be absolutely the best decision at the tine , but might still not work out , as it’s not an exact science as sone people on here seem to think it is.

We are lucky to have great owners who at least 80% of the time have got it spot on. That bit of luck is sometimes what you need to help keep things moving in the right direction.

 

It could be said that any signing has a degree of luck even when City signed Pep. But Cisco wasn't luck in the normal sense of the word.

We were at probably the most critical time in the club's history. We needed promotion to sustain our future, and we had a good squad that just was not functioning. The club had to appoint a coach that would get much more of our potential out of the squad in half a season - and they managed exactly that. It wasn't through picking a name out of a hat, or someone good that we all knew. He was plucked from somewhere in Russia, and not much of a record to boast of.

Yes, get drawn a National winner in the office sweepstake and that is luck.
But studying the options, the form and looking at the horses character, stamina and jumping attributes and then going down the bookies and betting a fortune on a 100/1 outsider (that no one had heard of) that romps home by 5 lengths - certainly is not luck. And effectively that is what happened with Cisco.

 

How do you know it wasn’t the 100-1 sweepstake choice rather than the same pick after studying the form?

You may be right but you have no basis to say it definitively.

 

Think i'd say luck if they hadn't also plucked Jokanovic out of nowhere, who also turned out to be a very good manager at this level.

 

I think the appointment was both inspired and brave - it would have been easy to get in a 'name' - and confirms my belief that Pozzo is the best and most informed owner we could possibly wish for

 

You can believe in the 100 to 1 shot, if you like.

But equally you would have no basis for your opinion either.

May as well shut the ****ing Forum down

 

Quite. I don’t have a basis either. So your analogy is a bit pointless. Although I do have a bit of a basis. They hired QSF after sacking Gracia and then sacked Pearson with 2 games to go and replaced him with Mullins. How’s the form card looking? I’d say that is stronger evidence than just claiming they have made a genius appointment.

 

The analogy isn't pointless, it demonstrates my thinking to others that may be interested as the OP asked us.

But you think that the club must use identical methods to select every appointees, even if they are failures? I tend to think they can learn from mistakes, just as in life.

 

Who cares!

We're up.

 

I think the owners have zero respect for the position of manager so it that respect their methods are completely consistent. Good picks, bad picks, will be a new guy in 12 months.

 

Gosh they sure do get lucky often...

 

It's honestly surprising how many people don't seem to think it's possible that people who actually work in the football industry every day might know something that we laymen don't.

 

Yep the layman to whom it was obvious the rehiring QSF was idiotic were sure made to look foolish.

 

The luck was the injury to Troy. It allowed Xisco to get us promoted.

 

I don't know whether Xisco will do well enough in the Prem, but that's a different issue.

Whether the same coach is here for long doesn't change the fact that Xisco was exactly what the club needed to get us promoted automatically when some people/fans/supporters gave up and thought the players weren't good enough.

The club didn't give up, players were good enough, as the Pozzo's/Xisco combination proved it - with games to spare. And people put it down to luck, unable to admit the Pozzo's did well on this occasion!

Such is their bitterness and embarrassment at their own lack of football knowledge.

 

He was indeed exactly what was needed and it worked out fantastically. A great pick by the owners.

The counter argument to your post is that opting for a cheap manager with almost no experience was in fact indicative that the owners had indeed given up at the time. If we hadn’t been promoted our finances would have been absolutely dire (and in fact still will be) so it that respect a cheap punt on the manager made absolute sense.

So likely a combination of luck and judgement?

At any rate your comments about “lack of football knowledge” to anyone who disagrees with you are childish.