Was not a good look. May have still been checking to see if he had all his limbs and vital organs after Saturday.
Despite my pre match confidence, on reflection the result now feels strangely inevitable. Cold night away in Wycombe. Home side improving week on week, desperate to get off the mark. Away side full of ex Premier League players with no experience of the Championship and these kind of games. We clearly expected to turn up, play in third gear and ease to a 2-0 win. This league doesn't work that way. This will either be seen as a crucial lesson on our romp to the title, or will be the night we were exposed as play off standard at best. As an optimist I believe it will be the former, but we will have to wait and see. To end this post on a positive note: as a so called soft-touch Spanish player, who probably was desperate to leave, Femenia was bloody brilliant. If all our players showed Femenia's attitude we would have won the game 3-0.
On Talksport last night. Watford didn't look interested and just failed to show up. Wycombe should have taken all 3 points
The thing is, we have 3 or 4 players who are technically superior to anything else in this division. JP's strike against Derby, the one or move for the goal vs Muff, Foster's wonder saves. Aside from these individual moments of quality, as a team, we are devoid of any attacking patterns or urgency. I'm sure even the COGs will tire of us going through the motions, creating nothing, soaking up shots and then winning 1 in 3 through an isolated attack after 3 or 4 extremely lucky escapes in defence. It's a totally joyless experience to watch us and I'm only glad that I've saved 550 quid and the time it would have taken to go to the stadium to boo this shyte.
Femania and Foster only players who can walk away with any credit. Disgusting performance - I've genuinely seen my idiot mates do a better job marking Kashket than Cathcart did. 3-5-2 is horrible, our players don't know where to find passing lanes and we're wasting the best player in the league as a make shift striker - no wonder he's looked total crap 90% of the time so far. Sign a left back or play Femenia there but stop this ******* nonsense. If Sema plays in Pedro instead of trying to beat 9 players, or Cleverley plays a simple cross field ball to Pedro instead of that horrible pass to their keeper, we win that 2-0. Fine margins. Unfortunately I think there are just much better teams than us in this league, not necessarily collections of players, but teams. Bournemouth, Swansea, Norwich, Reading and Brentford at a minimum. It's depressing knowing by the time we're back in the stadium we'll be a run of the mill Championship team having lost most of our good players by then, at least Cleverley has a new three year contract.
It really was a case of us not getting the absolute basics right and still trying silly flicks and hospital passes. Wycombe only have absolute basics and got them right every time. About 10 minutes in, Quina had time and space to make a simple ten yard pass to Sarr and somehow managed to hook it to a Wycombe player who was nowhere near the line of the pass to Sarr. Could tell it was going to be a long night. I have to congratulate Wycombe, my birth-town, who gave us a much more difficult game than the league leaders. Well played.
This place is a hyperbolic embarrassment today. Please remember we are joint second & we've only lost one game and only let in 4 goals in 8 games all whilst not having half our team available to us so far this season. Please remember that only a few days ago we were pretty comfortable against Bournemouth, and would have won that game at a canter had the ref done his job properly. Yesterday was a poor performance, but I genuinely think Wycombe will cause us a lot more problems than other teams in this league. Wycombe have a distinct way of playing that has been practiced over many seasons, their strengths directly play into our weaknesses - long balls, set pieces etc. We should be doing better against them, but we have an inexperienced, new side and when you play games in such short turnarounds, these things will happen. There are clearly issues with our team, but the reaction on here and the rest of the internet is so over the top. We clearly haven't got the right balance in the team yet, which largely comes from the midfield and the lack of a fit striker, but this will come. People on here were talking about how we'd be relegated and we were gutless before the season started. We're 3rd, Ivic has a distinct style and there are signs we're improving. Please remember that we had a shortened summer, pretty much no pre-season and a huge player turnover when Ivic took over. Clubs like Swansea have had the opposite. Because of these reasons, we'll have performances like last night every now and then... We didn't even lose yesterday. We will get a lot better, i'm pretty confident about that.
3rd and talk elsewhere of Ivic losing the dressing room and the players not playing for him. Good job we have cobbled a few results together then without being that great !
Do think it's worth noting Wycombe were incredibly unlucky to not beat Millwall and get a draw at Norwich - they certainly aren't absolute no hopers. But likewise they hadn't scored a set piece all season, last night it felt like they could score any time they got one. We also conceded in the 96th minute from one on Saturday - definitely an area we need to improve. Do think people are right to be concerned about performances though. According to most metrics (X/goals, X/Points) we should be somewhere around 14th. Individual quality and an outrageously good keeper are getting us points we perhaps don't deserve so far - that needs to change soon. How we react at Barsnley should show a lot.
Yep, Norwich scored a worldie FK in the last minute to avoid the same result. I agree it's an area we need to improve, and it's concerning that we've dropped 4 points from winning positions. When we were in Wycombe's position we used to detest the fans that would bemoan how awful their side had been when we beat them, and how patronising fans of clubs like QPR and Forest were to us. A large portion of our fans are becoming those arrogant, entitled fans....
My thoughts so far: The formation is crap. Let's change that ASAP. This is perhaps the most important point. The midfield are not as good as perhaps we hoped they were. Hughes coming back should be an enormous plus. Left back issue is embarrassing and just a complete continuation of the stupid recruitment mistakes made in the Prem. We seem to be caught between wanting to play fast counter attacking football, and slower, passing football from the back. Whole game plan seems confused / non-existent at the moment. Players don't seem to know what their roles are. Ivic doesn't seem to have an inclination/ability to change things up mid-game, in the way that, for example, Jokanavic used to. Players seem to be putting effort in, I don't think it's that that's lacking Ben Foster is damn good and is probably papering over some cracks with his saves in recent games Having said all that... as bad as last night was, we still got a point. We're still sitting quite nicely in the table. And, I believe, many of the above points are fixable. And I think Ivic says the right stuff - he must know what the issues are. He just needs to fix them. I don't think it's yet time to wet the bed. However, it's perhaps prudent to have some spare sheets ready, just in case. Improvement is needed sooner rather than later.
Foster not afraid to admit we haven't been great and can improve. Least it's been noted we aren't playing so well.
A couple of other things i've noticed: We clearly struggle when teams press up high up - the games we've looked good in this season the teams have sat off us. Ivic needs to figure out how we beat the high press and work out a plan to combat those teams. I feel like we lack proper leaders on the pitch when the going gets tough. Cleverley is clearly trying, but he's about the only one who seems to. We could do with a John Eustice type figure on the pitch. Maybe Deeney will improve that when he's back.
But many think Deeney is part of the problem. Big ego and influence getting managers sacked and having control over the Pozzos etc.
Appreciate Ivic has a style of football and a formation he wants to play but there does need to be some flexibility on his part, sometimes when it's not working you need a Plan B which could be as simple as switching to a 4-3-3, we also desperately need a striker to go in between Sarr and Pedro - hopefully Gray is ready to play on Saturday. Also, have you noticed we've become those fans we used to mock?
Trying to turn last night into a positive.......and Wycombe may have done us a favour. They ruthlessly exposed our weaknesses. Central defence was really poor. We got bullied all evening and it's not just this match. How often do the opposition swing a cross in and they get their head to the ball? Far too often. We are poor in both penalty areas of the field in dealing with crosses. Our central defenders just do not complete. Ok, Akinfenwa is a unit, but come on, he's now 38 but we made him look unplayable. He missed a sitter, had another shot which produced a good save from Foster, and had a header which went just wide. It was all too easy for him. Their goal came from a routine corner and Stewart just bullied Kabs out of the way to give himself a free header. There were other things too. Chalobah allowing the ball to roll under his foot which gave Wycombe a great chance, which Foster saved with his foot. The carless passing when under no real pressure, giving the ball away in dangerous areas. Cleverley is particularly bad at this. Troost-Ekong looks like he's at the required level, but as for the rest, they really need to up their game. We are now seeing problems with Sema at LWB. He's often caught out of position, allowing the wide man to put in an unchallenged cross. So many of their crosses came from his side of the pitch. Not really Sema's fault, as he's not a LWB, but it's becoming a problem as sides have now worked that out and are targeting this weakness. We're trying to play far too many passes, but passes without purpose. Playing across the backline, but often holding onto the ball for a second too long and being pressed. This results in a poor pass or block by the closing player, and invariably we lose possession. We do have good players, so occasionally a move will go technically right, such as our goal and the goal we scored against Bournemouth. There was very little the opposition could do about either goal, as they were executed perfectly. But it's rare to be perfect and I think we're falling into the trap of trying to score the perfect goal. We are not playing the percentages. We need to play the ball around quicker and with purpose. This is just not happening. I believe in our first 5 games, the opposition feared us and gave us too much respect. They sat back, didn't press us and even though we laboured going forward, they hardly laid a glove on us defensively. Now it's different. Teams are beginning to press us high and we're not comfortable with it. We want time on the ball, but teams have wised up and will not allow that. This is why the last three games have seen us bulldozed. The fact we've not had three horrible defeats is largely down to Foster. Heaven forbid we lose him for a period of time. No way would Bachmann be making the types of save Foster is having to make. We are far better than this and I'm hopeful that seeing the basement club, canon fodder for the rest of the league, can so emphatically take us to the cleaners, will sound alarm bells. Sure, Hughes, Gray and Deeney will all be welcome additions to the team, but we're running out of returning saviours. We had enough quality on that pitch to have won comfortably, but the experience was the complete opposite. I hope Ivic changes the formation to 4-3-3. Play Ngakai and Kiko as the fullbacks, with WTE and maybe Wilmot as the two CB's. We need to use Sarr and Pedro as wingers. We are losing so much by not utilising them in this way. We hardly look like we have a goal in us, so something has to change.
I was thinking this too, soon they will all be back and we better start improving then or I will be very concerned. Maybe we can parachute Geri in to save the day? Maybe Cucho will actually play for us? Maybe I'm in a state of panic!?
Final hope is that with a proper CF ready to start we can go 3-4-3 with Sarr on the right & Pedro or Sema on the left of the front 3...I think Kiko could handle LWB in those circumstances. Lack of chasing & pressing may mean they're knackered already cos Nasty Vlad made them do all sorts of tough training sessions...
Except to guarantee taking chances like that is the only possible justification for signing him at all.
In defence of Pedro, he got into 2 "almost certain" scoring positions....the disallowed goal & the one when all Cleverly had to do was pass it within a 3-yard band, but instead hit it too far ahead of him.
Biggest issue for me was watching an unfit 38 y.o. body builder bullying our back 3 Who is our enforcer ? Who wanted to get in Bayo's face ? Huge problems ahead if this is not addressed.
I don't agree. The criticism is not over the top. It is fair and warranted. Our players are not inexperienced, they are professionals. The club would have known what to expect from Wycombe. To have our defence bossed by immobile ageing centre forward was embarrassing. Wycombe played one up front!! A poor performance was always on the cards. I said before that we gave rode our luck so far in the Championship. The Championship is a weak league and we were lucky it was Wycombe last night. We got away with a point. To many fans the performance was truely terrible. Just not good enough and the fans are fed up with these displays on the pitch.
The first time we've fielded a stronger side than I was expecting and then the worst performance of the season. I echo the comments about the joylessness of our football. Sarr is quick, can beat a man, can deliver a low cross and tracks back effectively, but he can't hold the ball up and is a poor centre forward. Why not put Kabs there? He used to play there and it would keep him further away from our goal.
How many of our "inexperienced, new side" played in that thrashing of Liverpool? Six, plus one of last night's subs. Admittedly, we didn't have a left back or a striker, but that's no excuse for our dreadful passing.
No. We're not moaning about dropping points, we're moaning about the way the team is playing, despite picking up points. Not the same thing.
Ivic has been hamstrung by the club not recruiting two areas he consistently asked for during the transfer window; especially an LB who we foolishly banked on Masina returning whilst Femenia and Sema filled in temporarily, who now won't be back til after the January transfer window than November as originally estimated. His approach is dry but makes sense given our squad balance. We have good quality CB's for the Championship (Cathcart, WTE, Wilmot, Kabasele while Sierralta starred for his country against very tough opposition) and good quality (On paper) midfielders. Pedro, Sarr, Sema (In a more advanced role than LWB) Quina are potential match winners and we are yet to see Gray and Hughes which will balance out our attacking problems substantially while Foster is a level above in the Championship. He's adapted the team to its current best strengths. Make no bones about it; we were poor last night with questions raised again about our central midfield especially, but it's also easy to overlook and give credit to Wycombe who played to their strengths and made life extremely hard for us and other teams before now and will do after us as well. They are no mugs and arguably should have come away with 3 points in their previous games. If we pick up a win next game we'll be content with our form. The Championship is a slog; those who expected a plain sailing Season where we blitz the bottom sides routinely and cruise against the sides around us are deluded. For every Watford 4 Bolton 3, there were plenty of Watford 1 Birmingham 0 and Charlton 1 Watford 0 to compensate for it. Every team around us will be bemoaning similar issues of some kind. I'm sure Bournemouth fans for example would have had their own gripes with their squad when we played them as we do with ours now after last night. His rotation makes sense and in moderation (QSF making Capoue and Abdi wingers, Gracia having Hughes as a winger) which will avoid burnout come the end of the Season which will plague teams like Reading and us back in 12/13 where we had a torrid run in due to it. We've had half our squad unavailable for various reasons which compromised any team selection choices he could make up until now and Ivic has made us much harder to beat whilst we're consistently gaining points. A Zola-coaster Season rarely ends in promotion. GT help us if we had the start Zola did with how we're reacting which could easily have been the case under a different manager. You can level some criticism of how he is blending our central midfield together but he has also had his hands tied behind his back for most of his tenure on that front too as well as losing TDB who looked very bright. He calls games we are seeing them which is always good to see as well and doesn't defend slackers.
I agree. But we need to recognise that we will still very likely look iffy at the back and give away a lot of possession. If Femenia plays LWB, the we will have a 5 right footed players playing in defensive areas. It closes a lot of opportunity for the left hand side of our play to be effective. To be successful long-term with 3 at the back, we require a left footed CB. We don't have one so would naturally look to move to a back 4...but then we don't have a LB. We are being hampered massively in shape and patterns of play because couldn't recruit in either of those positions for whatever reason. Some are saying we just need to 'suck it up' and find a way of making what we have work. Well that is what we are seeing - dull, percentage football and having to move our better players out of position because of the deficiencies at the back.
This is a group of players who haven't had an identity, or a clear way of playing for ages. Ivic is trying to implement that, building from the back. It's not going to happen overnight. If it's still like this when the full squad is available and Ivic has had at least half a season then I think we have a right to moan. Edit - I should also add, and i'd be interested to hear the views of Reids and others who are more analytical than me, but I thought Wycombe did a very effective job on us - I don't think there are too many other teams who can play the way they do more effectively.
Playing as we are right now, highly unlikely. But I see us with plenty of scope to improve. Even though performances have ranged from resilient to poor, we're still in the top 6. This fact gives me hope. There is an expectancy that we will improve. There's certain logic behind that. I can see Hughes, Deeney and Gray all raising the performance levels, however, that's only three players and the one's who are tasked with the job right now, have to be playing better. Once Capoue is up to speed and Hughes is reintroduced, I expect our midfield to be strong, but that does mean they're pretty much indispensable. We cannot really replace their quality, as we've already seen the existing players in midfield are not really cutting it. As I suspected, we're only going to be a major force in this league if all our best players are available and playing well. Foster certainly is carrying the team at the moment and he's another who cannot be replaced. My hope is our best team is available often enough to get us through this campaign. If we suffer injuries to key players, that will derail us for sure.
This ‘whole squad available’ thing is a bit of a red herring. Every team has to deal with injuries. If we can’t cope with an average amount of injuries and it’s hampering Ivic’s style or philosophy getting through, then it’s not a very well put together side. And we don’t have half a season to just write off. We need to hit the ground running. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that this current style is gonna change just because Hughes and Gray are added.
