Grenfell enquiry - Stage 1 Report Published

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    All the lumpen elements are rushing to defend "our firemen" from perceived criticism in the report. The establishment is "getting away with it" while the poor humble hero on the ground is catching the blame is the common opinion.

    I've listened to the daily BBC podcasts from the enquiry while it was held and I've read a good chunk of the report. The latter seems to me to be thorough and absolutely factual.

    There were huge failings on the part of the LFB, the police and the ambulance service. In their organisation, in their training, in the equipment, in the planning, in their command and control on the scene and in their liaison between each other. They're supposed to have a joint response strategy to major incidents but didn't even bother advising one another that they'd declared the incident to be major. There were major errors in the 999 control rooms and wrong information was given out ("fire is contained on 4th floor", "rescuers are on their way to you" etc). In some cases they didn't get flat numbers, the number of occupants, local conditions etc.

    Most of all, the senior LFB officers failed to see that comparation had failed and to change the stay put advice.

    Are we supposed to ignore these failings? Don't we want to improve?

    Those who planned and implemented the refurbishment will get theirs in part 2. He has already noted that building regs say materials must inhibit fire, but the panels instead accelerated it.
     
    Moose likes this.
  2. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    I can't imagine the pain/anger the Grenfell survivors are going through nor would I ever wish to be in the same position as them. But:

    FWIW B'wood was the home of the Fire Research Station (or the Fire Insurers Research and Training Organisation) which was 'rationalised' and 'moved' to the Building Research Establishment in Garston... I wonder how much expertise, knowledge and capability was lost in the 'move'?
     
    wfcmoog and Clive_ofthe_Kremlin like this.
  3. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I think that one of the problems is that any senior person (in any of the emergency services) is absolutely scared stiff to deviate from procedures. If some one does so, and someone dies because of it, they will be pilloried for doing so. probably sacked, loss of pension and most likely years of hatred and abuse.

    I have absolute sympathy for the firefighters, police and paramedics on the scene and, at this early stage, those in charge on the night. I am sure that they would have been making their decisions fopr the right reasons, as far as their regs allowed. I also have an understanding of the difficulties facing the likes of Duckenfield at Hillsborough, (not with the attempted cover-up, nor the inadequate planning pre-match).

    We need to cut some slack for those having to make decisions on the spur of the moment, and concentrate on those that have weeks, months, years, to plan policy regulations and rules.
     
    iamofwfc and hornmeister like this.
  4. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Austerity and penny pinching killed these people whether it be through the cladding or through the underfunded LFB. Cant wait for the real people to be named and shamed when the rest of the reports come out, whoever signed off the cladding as fit for purpose is in for a jail sentence hopefully under some kind of manslaughter charge. Why havnt the Police made arrests over this anyway?
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  5. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    There was a Grenfell firefighter who called in to LBC, (had to do it anonymously as they're not supposed to speak to the press regarding this), this morning. You need to find it and listen to it. It was around 7.20am.

    Basically, a stay put technique that was tried and tested and worked, (and has worked since), against putting all high floor residents into a tiny stairwell already full of firefighters, hoses, water and choking black smoke?

    Easy to be wise after the event but at the time they made what they thought were the correct decisions.

    It's the c***s that cladded the building and let fire regulations fall by the wayside that need shooting, not the emergency services.
     
  6. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Even if the emergency services made errors (and I have no doubt they did, there's only so much preparation you can do for a horrific event like Grenfell), they're an after-the-fact concern.

    They didn't start the fire, nor did they make it worse.
     
    iamofwfc and Moose like this.
  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I can see both points of view here. Ultimately the Fire Service needs to learn from its mistakes and there is suggestion it has been too defensive. However, it didn’t cause it and the heroism of firefighters isn’t in doubt.
     
    Filbert likes this.
  8. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    CleyHorn likes this.

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