Gracia Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by GoingDown, Apr 7, 2018.


Should JG go?

  1. Yes, now?

    42 vote(s)
  2. No? He deserves a chance to get us out of the championship?

    1 vote(s)
  3. Not yet. If we lose to Newcastle?

    28 vote(s)
  4. If we are bottom at Christmas?

    7 vote(s)
  5. If we go 10 games without a win?

    13 vote(s)
  1. wfcwarehouse

    wfcwarehouse Strangeland

    He’ll be gone by christmas, thank Christ.
  2. Another thing I don’t like about him is he doesn’t use young players. Who would come to Watford when there is almost zero rotation or opportunity beyond the favourite 11.
    wfcmoog, Burnsy and Jumbolina like this.
  3. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Presumably endorsed from above though?
  4. wfcwarehouse

    wfcwarehouse Strangeland

    Sad but true - and I’d go as far as saying Javi has his favourites, who’ll pretty much never be displaced.
  5. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Is this really true? One thing that I think you’d have to commend Javi on last year was keeping the majority of the squad motivated and involved, whether through the cup run, or opportunities in the league. Success was given a chance to stake his claim, but faded badly after some promising early cameos. Quina made several appearances, either starting or from the bench before his season was ended up by injury. Wilmot perhaps wasn’t used in his natural position, but for a guy stepping up from League 2, he was in and around the squad, played some cup games, and then went to gain further experience at a high level. In the case of Wilmot, I’m hoping (optimistically perhaps I admit) that one of the main factors in not signing another CB this past window is because they expect Wilmot to come back from his Swansea loan ready to contribute on a regular basis.

    Are there any other young players who might have warranted a chance? Perhaps Dahlberg could be aggrieved at his lack of opportunities, but it’s hard to think of anybody else.
  6. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    There is the possibility, of course, that the ones he plays are the best ones we've got. If I was a coach I'd have a habit of playing the best players more often than the others. You could call that favouritism I suppose. It may be that you know a good deal about 'the rest' and consider them superior - in your opinion.
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  7. wfcwarehouse

    wfcwarehouse Strangeland

    I’d certainly argue that Deeney shouldn’t be a guaranteed starter, yet Javi happily plays him every week. Same for Cathcart and Kiko, who are both some way below the level required (in my opinion).

    Dahlberg will most likely rue a lack of opportunities. I think we have to manage Wilmot carefully so he doesn’t get frustrated with us shunting him around on loan.
  8. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Agreed in regard to Deeney. I remain hopeful that Welbeck will prove to be the man that reduces Deeney to an impact role. I can also understand why he’s persevered with Deeney, given that the other options in that “target man” role are Success (was given opportunities, failed to take them) and Okaka (barely capable of moving for 45 minutes).

    I think you’re being overly harsh on Cathcart, who has regularly proven to be a reliable, if unspectacular option, and Kiko may have played less if Janmaat has been able to stay fit on a consistent basis. Let’s not act as though Janmaat isn’t capable of abject performances either. I’ve still not forgiven him for bottling that defensive header away at Fulham last year. It was shameful. Both of them are wildly inconsistent though.

    I agree 100% with what you say about Wilmot. Swansea looked like a good move, given that his new manager knows him from the England setup, but he’s not played a minute of their opening games so far. If he’s able to break into their team and stay there, I think he’d be rightfully aggrieved if he’s sent on loan again next season, rather than being given the chance to break through. But I think the onus is on him to earn that opportunity still.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Javi hasn’t/isn’t making mistakes, but I do think some of the things you’ve called him out on here aren’t quite as black and white as you’re making it sound.
    wfcmoog and Supertommymooney like this.
  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I can get the debate about Kiko and Deeney. Both seem to have potential replacements in the squad. But can you say the same for Cathcart? He was a consistent 7 out of 10 in the centre of our defence last season.

    And the bit about the younger players depends entirely on what they were told when they moved here. Though if we don’t move Dahlberg out on loan before the remaining summer transfer window shuts I’d consider it a mistake. But that would be on Giraldi, not Javi.
    Supertommymooney likes this.
  10. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Giraldi is probably confused as to why Gracia is putting the pensioner Gomes on the bench. Simultaneously gives the finger to Bachman and Dahlberg and also tells Foster that he has zero competition for his spot. Utterly idiotic by Gracia.
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 and Chumlax like this.
  11. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

  12. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    What will happen first Brexit or Graxit
  13. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    **** off and take your little favourites with you. Clueless, tactically inept, gurning fool.
    Bubble, NorwegianOrn and GoingDown like this.
  14. Fire him


    When he gets off the bus
  15. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Reservist

    Now I’m not one to jump the gun but if we lose at home against west ham then he has to go.
  16. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Come on, todays performance was way better. Not hard to improve from last week but the players are still putting a shift in for javi. Not a lot he can do about our final ball which was frustrating today. Wasn’t expecting anything today a draw was deserved and would of been great result. Apart from opening 15 mins if we continue like this results will come.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Leighton Buzzer likes this.
  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    I wouldn't let him on it. Lock the doors and make him grin his way home.
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  18. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    If Deeney, Dawson, Holebas and Kiko are the best we have (and I'm not saying they're not, in some cases) then it indicates a terrible standard of recruitment over the past few windows.

    That's not Gracia's fault. Our squad is utter ****, especially in defence where it's mid table Championship quality, but he's shown there is the possibility of more from this set of players and that's, perhaps, a rod for his own back, because right now we're clearly nowhere near good enough for this league.
    Burnsy likes this.
  19. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    But Deeney should not be starting. He needs a kick up the arse and being benched for a few weeks is the only way to see if he's genuinely, utterly past it, or if he's just comfortably cruising along.
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  20. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Deeney wasn’t the problem today. He started poor but so did everyone. Our final ball was ****. Pereyra was wearing success’s boots. Del Boy marked out the game for long periods

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I think he HAS to get a result in the next two games.

    West Ham (h ) and Newcastle (a ). Like us, they've both had shaky starts. Lose both, with City and Wolves away to follow.....I just don't see how he can possibly keep his job.

    Personally I think because of the poor start, we'll somehow turn it around in the next two games. But if we put in another Brighton style performance in those two......then I'm sure we'll be looking for the next new head coach.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  22. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yep we need 2 decent performances and at least 2 draws or a single win.
  23. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    After first 15 minutes today we woke up and started playing, play like our last 75 and results will come. Can’t go into games like Brighton and expect to win

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  24. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Today we could easily had taken a point. It wasn't a terrible performance at all, but the result is a kick in the teeth. When things are going for you, VAR gives that penalty. Dawson's header goes in instead of hitting the bar. Deeney scores instead of smashing the ball into Pickford's face. Small things have to turn in our favour, and I think they will.

    But he does need to change things now. Since 3rd Match, we've only won 2 matches in the Premier League, against relegated Fulham and Huddersfield. It's a rotten run, which has been produced by the same selection of players and formation, by and large. We look stale and for a fan, it's predictable as to what is going to happen. Another hard luck story. We've got to make it happen ourselves.

    A new system and maybe a few fringe players being played. Why not try it? What's the worse that can happen? We lose.....but that's what's happening now anyway.

    It's good to have Welbeck included, and he'll become a viable option for a starting place soon no doubt. We need to get Sarr in that side ASAP as well.

    Right now, we still have time on our side, but lose the first 7, which could happen, we'll be facing an entire season of uphill battling. I really do not see Watford capable for that type of fight, going on every season to date, where we've feebly ended each season.

    Pick up 4 points from the next two, then we are back to our point a game average. Ok, we know we'll lose at City and Wolves, so that can be expected. Then it's Sheff Utd at home......which will be another MUST WIN match.
  25. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yep. I’d like Quina in midfield as he gives a lot of energy and creatively. And clearly Welbeck over Deeney. Doesn’t need too many changes to freshen it up and that’s before Sarr.
  26. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Agree with most of this, but Wolves have a lot of games to play and no reason we should go there feeling we can get nothing.

    Wet spam and Newcastle we must get some points from, but they’ll be looking at the games the same way.

    Hopefully Sarr can come in and be our saviour and give the whole team a lift

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  27. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Wolves have improved over the summer, and will have no problem in beating this current Watford side (IMO). I'm hoping Sarr and Welbeck can turn our impotent forward line into one that strikes fear into the opposition. We're too easy to defend against and offer no threat going forward. If you combine that with a weak defence, you'll end up on the bottom of the league with no points and no goals......just as we are.

    We can do nothing to improve the defence now, but the forward line.....there's still some hope.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  28. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Yes, and an opponent worried about our attacking prowess will have to sit further back and thereby reduce pressure on our defence.
  29. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Academy Graduate

    Javi has earned himself time to turn this around , as he has done in the past . He will come under more pressure if this run continues though. I doubt the Pozzos will sit back and wait if it looks like we are getting sucked into a relegation dogfight .
  30. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Apparently today was a "good performance". Riiiiiight...

    A good performance where we had one chance the whole game, that was probably offside, and were shambolic at the back had Richarlison to thank for missing two absolute sitters as our clown defenders twice left him completely free.

    His stubbornness has turned to delusion. Get him out.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  31. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    Our final ball has been SH*T for months, so why can't he and his coaches coach his players to deliver a better final ball or make a better decision? Or better still, play players like Quina in midfield that have proved they can pick a pass and keep the ball in possession without hoofing it.
  32. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I totally agree, but realistically he has to get a good result in the next two games. We cannot continue losing games without expecting things being done by the people at the top.

    It's unfortunate how the fixtures have unfolded. The Brighton result has put everyone on the back foot. Everton away was always a tough one. We've got City and Wolves away, which will be defeats for sure. So it leaves only West Ham and Newcastle as matches where he needs to get a win in at least one of them.

    Having 0, 1, 2 or only 3 points after 7 games, will seriously test the resolve of the board.

    However, I do think they will be pragmatic and will look at it from the perspective of how tough were these matches. Brighton was extremely damaging. Everton was an improvement in performance, but still a bad result. Nothing in the next 2 games, meaning nothing in the next 4 in all probability...….added to the fact we lost 4 on the spin at the back end of last season, will be hard to justify keeping the coach in his post.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    As predicted by yourself, me and and several others the Brighton game was huge. Losing 0-3 I would say has put Gracia (and the club) in huge danger given the fixtures. It was a massive game.
  34. 'It was a good performance'

    Gracia is totally deluded
    Jumbolina and NathWFC like this.
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I think they look at fixtures in terms of expected results and hopeful results. Brighton at home would have been an expected result in terms of a win. Football as we know doesn't always pan out like that, but the performance would have sounded loud alarm bells I'm sure. It's not as if the warning signs were not already there from last season. However, the same thing happen last year and he turned it around. This time he's not been able to do that, yet.

    Everton away, Wolves away and City away would be seen as hopeful also. West Ham home, Newcastle away and Brighton home I would probably be thinking of a 7 point return. We can still get 6 points, so a point off the target would not be a problem.

    Key games now are West Ham, Newcastle and Sheff Utd. We need to pick up wins in these matches, then we'll be back on track.
    miked2006 and Jumbolina like this.

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