Don't think today was Gracia's fault. The root of the problem with this team, is it's always been overly reliant on confidence & the stats in recent games demonstrate this. It turns the dial to extreme fragility when things aren't going right & what seems like an unquestionable top 10 squad when it is. That is the Jekyll & Hyde Watford that I have learned to love & hate. You can never write them off when they are doing badly or have complete confidence in them when doing well. Any neutral football supporter will likely tell you the same thing. It could be worse, but this is what happens when you are reliant on a flamboyant squad of midfield maestro's.
Ok i know its the Express but seems to be accurate-17th richest owner in PL (Last season) We will never be able to compete against the vast majority of those clubs https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ague-rich-list-owner-net-worth-sportgalleries
We all criticised rightly that Silva was too vocal in his criticisms when he was here. The worry I have is that Gracia is the exact opposite and hence why the club have given him such a long deal. I agree with Jumbolina that Gracia is playing the budget hand that Gino dealt him - but I can't shake the fear of that being something we have to get used to and Gracia won't even attempt to be vocal about it. Its all very well saying its the players fault and he is blameless - but he coaches the players. If they don't perform or are simply not good enough, he should have been imploring the club to get better players in. Now we don't know that he didn't - but if he did, and the club ignored him - why would he be happy to sign up to that for another 7 years potentially? It smacks of the actions of a 'Yes' man in my opinion. I like him. He carries himself well - but he needs to show more anger when we perform like we did today. It's all very well saying we deserved more from this game and that...the fact is we didn't get the points that our play merited. Many will say that's the strikers fault. I'd say it's just as much his because whether we like it or not, the buck stops with him as head coach. Can someone at the next 'At Your Place' event please ask whoever is there representing the board, why on earth we aren't didn't get the striker and CB that we so desperately needed!
And if the answer is “ we haven’t got the money to do so” do you think they would tell us and whole world
Then I think it would be entirely fair to then ask where the money for Richarlison and TV money went. We had an incredibly profitable summer. If we have to sell a player for £50m each summer and add that to TV money just to operate as we are, then surely that indicates a deeper issue?
Yep I have no doubt. Not too much to ask to upgrade Mariappa though with the revenue streams rather than deploying them on infinite midfield prospects.
Indeed there might be-please see posts from this thread. http://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/a-week-in-the-life-of-watford-jason-burt.55152/ Its partly my interpretation of course but the Swiss ramble link is more informative In a nut shell- a/nothing left for players after wages and other PL costs -unless we sell. All TV money used up b/ the club have just borrowed £25m of the future Richarlison money-which was being paid in stages-very common and why a set of accounts are never that clear. We had debt of nearly £70m after end of 30/6/17 c/ the accounts are always 9 months post the end of the previous season d/ Gino never gives interviews and so we will never know how financial stable we are bar the facts as disclosed by the accounts and our transfer policy which is to buy bargain basement (relative to the PL) and lots of them-plus when we did spend big on Gray .........
Indeed and we equal on points with them after 14 games So on the positive side compared to the riches elsewhere (even Huddersfield!) we are "punching above our weight" -as are they
If the TV money leaves us without any money at all after wages, and we still have to field Mariappa as first choice and Deeney/Gray/Okaka are our striking options, then I'd suggest we are either paying those four far too much, or we have dedicated too much in wages to keepers and midfielders. To have Mariappa as 1st choice CB in a premier league team either we are being too frugal or we have misdirected our resources. It may well be that Deeney, Okaka and Gray are financial albatrosses and we are stuck with them because nobody in their right mind would pay such poor striking options the amount we do (I'm assuming Mariappa isn't a financial burden).
Yes I’d agree. But people tell me our wage bill swallows the whole of the annual TV money. I suppose the two items aren’t incompatible if all the other clubs are completely doing their pods.
I think we were in charge of the game because Leicester were so poor, not because we were good. And given that we lost, thats a pretty damning verdict if you ask me.
I think if the club are serious about being best of the rest, and the figures people are saying are true in terms of the TV money and Richarlison money being gone already to pay off loans and wages, then they really have to look for more outside investment as our owners aren't wealthy enough sadly to get us there on their own.
Maybe or maybe not, but our owners have given us a shot at it. We will not shortcut to success, like Everton. We may fail, may even get relegated, but we will do it our own way. I think the Pozzo’s are testiment to succeeding with brain over wealth. If you succeed in this way then you have something strong, built on solidity and it’s a far more rewarding achievement.
I’d say our centreback grouping is the weakest in the league. Cathcart/Kabs solid. Mariappa a fill in option. Then, good grief, Prodl and Britos. This was discussed at length in numerous post match threads last season. Pozzo/Giraldi saw fit to do nothing aside renew the Britos contract and buy a youth prospect who is now seen as a midfielder. A wretched transfer market performance and Gracia has to make the best of what he has.
But what are the prospects for a club like ours on the edge of London surrounded by clubs with larger resources (financial backers), ground capacity and fan base. If you were a sensible prospective buyer not some chancer what would you see are the financial opportunities to make money beyond what you pay to take over from the Pozzos. Transfer dealing-well thats what we are doing, winning trophies by spending big on players and ground capacity-not our way. We are the Udinese of the PL and thats it. Good on the Pozzos for not letting us end up like QPR/Charlton/Sunderland/Coventry etc in chasing "the dream" and ending up stuffed because we went beyond our resources and get owners who leave us in the lurch I enjoy watching us trying to chase our own dream but always ensuring we have a club to watch
I don't disagree, however if our wage bill is swallowing up this money then it baffles me how other clubs are massively outspending us in terms of both signing on fees and wages. Wasn't Ffp was supposed to fix this, but no one can say West ham and Everton are generating that much more income to cover these expenditures than us that they can afford to rediculously outspend us as much as they are. All stinks of rich owners manipulating the Ffp rules.
Watford total revenue £123m and £4m profit West Ham revenue £183m and £43m profit Everton revenue £171m and £25m profit Nothing to do with dodgy FFP (which doesn't apply in PL) but larger gate receipts and spend by fans plus higher league position which gets more money and then greater commercial revenue given much larger fan base to sell stuff etc
I don't really buy into the "we don't have any money" idea that seems to be accepted. We're not spending big in the market, we have the 5th lowest wage structure, we're not spending on the stadium. It just seems we've really tightened our belt. We sold Richarlison for £40m. We must have a healthy profit. But it's good to make out we're skint, as clubs that know you have money to invest will increase their asking price. I'm happy for Watford to promote the illusion that they are poor, but I don't believe it for a second.
Fair enough. I suppose we should think ourselves lucky that season ticket prices have been kept relatively low too, as we are also one of the cheapest, though I suppose for the crowd numbers we're talking at Watford, I guess that won't have such a major impact. But £500 more on 15,000 season tickets would mean a lot more income. Doubt we'd sell too many at that price though!!!
Interesting figures and ties into the wage bills. (76m, 95m , 106m respectively). I think this shows we are misallocating our wage budget. Either we have too much invested in midfield and are unbalanced, or our donkey strike force are costing us a fortune. Not sure we can do too much about this in the short term, especially if the latter is true. I wonder how much Gray/Deeney/Okaka take out of our wage pot as a percentage?
I don't know if I imagined it or just heard somebody speculating it but in the back of my head I am pretty sure someone once said Feeney has a clause that he will always be equal to the highest wage earner. It's likely bollox but I agree with your general sentiment. I am certain our strike force aren't worth their pound to performance ratio than the rest of the team.
That contract extension seems like a fine idea now. Pozzo must be burning with shame and anger that he let himself get all giddy over a 3 nil home win over a woeful huddersfield side. I can't imagine the sense of humiliation he must be feeling this morning. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't already actively looking to sell the club to go back to Italy with his tail between his legs, never to return to these shores. Fancy that, the mighty businessman being seduced by the gurning simpleton! Make no mistake about it, this slump will see us plummet down the league. Even the dross down the bottom have heart and fight. We have no redeeming qualities. I think the time has come to start leaving the match as soon as we go behind. The players couldn't give a ***** about our club. There is nothing enjoyable at all about watching this team of hateful c**** being led into oblivion by this hapless terd.
We made a £4m profit in season 16/17 after selling Ighalo, Vydra etc-making £22m profit from those in arriving at £4m In the season just finished -for which accounts will not be out till March 19 we spent £64m on Gray, Richarlison, Cleverly, Lookbackinangerago, Chalobah, Hughes and sold virtually no one. So no profit that year. Transfer market says net spend £50m. Thats why the debt went up to c £70m. Richarlison sale was in the current trading year to June 19 so accounts out March 2020. After the sell on cost and at £40m we could make what £20m profit-even so the impact of what was spent last season must come home to roost
With the same squad numbers, others can outspend us on wages by what 25/30% is what that tells me. We may well be overpaying the strikers but we are the 5th lowest wage payers in PL because we are one of the smallest clubs with very limited ability to increase revenue because of ground size, fan base etc so rely on astute player trading to keep us in there. When someone tells Gino we need this Gray fella who cant head the ball nor get past anyone 1 v 1 and he costs £12-£18m then he must be very nervous about another "Trevor Senior" (for us old guys).
Yes Gray has been a money pit. If we look around the clubs with 30% more wage power, those players are far more than 30% superior than our woeful strikeforce. We're burning cash on Deeney/Gray/Okaka so we can't invest that money in forwards of a serviceable standard. Okaka has been a disaster. A dreadful player, who is rarely match fit and who is impossible to get off the books.
The strikers are getting a bit of a bashing, and on this occasion it's probably justified. Gracia was forced to change it around and try Success with Deulofeu. Now GD is not a striker. He's a talented wide man but he is pretty poor when it comes to converting chances. Gracia has only done this because Gray and Deeney are so poor in front of goal. He needs to try something else to find a winning formula. Just watch the Gray misses yesterday. It's comical. He just cannot do it. He does try hard and is a willing runner, but that's all he can offer. We cannot pin our hopes on this guy. He misses these chances on a regular basis and you could make a lengthy compilation of misses to illustrate this if you wanted to. I quite like Gray though, and he's does have some good attributes as a forward player, but he's just hopeless in front of goal. Let's be honest, he's just a Championship player and no more than that. He's one of those that will look decent in the Championship but cannot step up to the higher level. Deeney is similar to Gray, in that he just cannot score goals in the Premier League. Take away his penalties, then his record is quite poor. For me, Deeney still deserves to be at the club as he offers a lot on and off the pitch, but I'm starting to believe he just hides out there. He never puts himself in a good goal scoring position. He often will pass when he has and opportunity to take the ball forward and shoot. It's quite rare that he will actually take a shot these days, let alone have something meaningful on target. If you play Deeney, then you have to have someone playing off him that will score goals. He's only a player who will bully the opponent for others to profit from. That's his game. He will not score you goals in the Premier League. Okaka, is just a journeyman pro. He's here as a backup in case of injuries. I've seen a couple of good cameos from him. His debut against Everton, that first half against Liverpool, and I think he did well coming off the bench against Everton again, but that's it. He must love Merseyside clubs for some reason, but he's generally very poor. He just does not have the energy or desire to play in the Premier League. Sinclair is still a striker on our books, but as we can all see, he's at Sunderland and not exactly ripping it up in League One, so clearly is a punt that didn't come off. Now to a little bit of hope. Success has really impressed me this season. He could become a very good Premier League striker. He's still young but is fast and unbelievably strong. I've seen him link up well in build up play also. Huge potential, but is another that cannot finish. No composure, but at least he has time on his side and can be coached. Penaranda is another that's eligible now. We've not seen him in a Watford shirt yet, but is being held back for a reason. Now is the time to throw him in, certainly from the bench. Some players up their game in a match and we will not know until we see him as to whether he can do this or not. We have Pedro coming in a year from now, and he could be a very, very good player. Cucho is also on our books, but whether we'll ever get to see him because of permits is another matter.
Another good point. The money Watford are wasting on certain players. As I mentioned before, I'd take Deeney out of this discussion, but Gray is one of the highest earners at the club. There are others that are taking a wage without contributing. Okaka, Kaboul and Zeegelaar have been very poor signings. We need to get these guys off the books as soon as possible, but it's going to be hard. They are no good for us, so why would anyone else want them, especially on the wages they're on currently. Looking at the contracts, Okaka is here until 30/06/21, so we have another 2.5 years of him. Kaboul is here until the end of this season, so will be out of contract then. Gray is here for another 3.5 years, so we really have to consider selling him in the summer as he's far too expensive to retain. He's not justifying his high salary, but it will be a massive achievement to manage to sell him even at half price. Probably the worst signing Watford have ever made, pound for pound. Zeegelaar is around for another 2.5 years also. So these poor signings are going to be with us for quite some time. Only Kaboul and Britos will be gone by the end of the season being out of contract. These players suck up money and reduce Watford's ability to move forward. It's not their fault though. The club wanted them and gave them the contracts, so it's a mess of our own making. Thankfully, it's only a small number who I would say should not be at the club and buying players is not always a guarantee. I think we are far more savvy now in our recruitment. Maybe when we were promoted it was a case of trying to get who we could. Now I think we are able to attract a better type of player. Going forward, I suspect signings will be much more in tune to our needs as a club.
