Gracia Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by GoingDown, Apr 7, 2018.

?

Should JG go?

  1. Yes, now?

    42 vote(s)
    46.2%
  2. No? He deserves a chance to get us out of the championship?

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%
  3. Not yet. If we lose to Newcastle?

    28 vote(s)
    30.8%
  4. If we are bottom at Christmas?

    7 vote(s)
    7.7%
  5. If we go 10 games without a win?

    13 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Indeed, defending was very much at the expense of attacking and even attempting to score. He got lucky that an isolated and unsupported front two managed to score enough to keep us up.

    On second thoughts, Maybe as part of a dream team with Zola?
     
  2. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Yep. Espanyol have scored 26 goals in 30 games this season. He's a one trick, very boring pony. Obviously, Jurado has contributed 0 of those goals in his 23 performances. Rumours abound that he's still neat and tidy in possession though.
     
    3000, Timbers, GoingDown and 2 others like this.
  3. wfcwarehouse

    wfcwarehouse Strangeland

    Played well against Chelsea, but we were against ten men. Everything went our way (for a change!!)

    I think on the whole though we’ve played pretty poorly and I haven’t seen anything to really excite me for next season.
     
  4. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    Do some of you lot ever look back at your previous posts? Three months ago you couldn't believe Okaka couldn't get a game. Now he's coming on, the new manager is terrible because he's not bringing on Gray instead. When will we, as fans, accept that whatever manager we get they are going to have limited players to choose from.
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    In my defence, I’ve always said that our defence is terrible and that Okaka is woeful. I did however say that Deeney should start ahead of the other strikers. Two out of three ain’t bad...
     
    Annoying noises likes this.
  6. lancyclaret

    lancyclaret Academy Graduate

    I'd like to see a more swashbuckling style but we're no Man City, Liverpool, etc...Defence is our strong point so we may as well make the most of it.

    We were completely the opposite under Eddie Howe - goals galore going in at both ends.

    Would you rather be 7th with Dyche or 12/13th with "Smug Eddie"? Dyche EARNED the promotion in 2013/14 with hardly any financial backing (Barnes £450k) while Howe had his 2014/15 promotion BOUGHT for him by the Russian billionaire.
     
    @julesmckenzie and Burnsy like this.
  7. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Personally I’d have Dyche as I hate the lycraclad, Lego man, saint of of all football managers.
    And lord knows I have no love for Russians millionaires

    But the gamesmanship? (Yes this exists elsewhere)
    The anti football?

    I’m not saying Dyche hasn’t done well. But is it good to watch? Would you prefer it to be a bit more balanced and interesting. Genuinely not having a pop. You seem insightful and self aware.
     
  8. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    And to be fair you’re no worse than the “great arsenal” team and their 1-0s in my eyes. It’s just it does sound frommnay like the football served up is not great to watch

    You have a good defence no probs with that but seeing games out, rolling around on the floor, playing for time in most games.

    Not to detract from Burnley’s achievement, I genuinely wish you the highest league place you can get but we are both definetly punching well above our weight. I’d like to think we are honest teams with honest proper fans. Probably as neither of us are glamour clubs. I guess I’m asking as an honest football fan. Neither of our teams are top 6 how should the other 14 play? Should we teach our children fair play, honesty and entertainment?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  9. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    And despite what others might say. I liked Dyche when he was here. The pozzos should have given him a chance. Again very easy for me to say with hindsight. So if he wants to enthusiastically celebrate scoring against us. And has to use wiles as a manager good on him.i don’t hold that against him

    It’s just the style.

    A win is a win and that’s good. But I would think deep somewhere game play wouldn’t sit well with an honest club and fans
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  10. Dyche had an excuse at Watford, we didn't have a pot to p*ss in

    Lets cut the nonsense, Burnley have a skip full of cash from TV deal (like we all do) he has no excuse; he has Burnley playing neanderthal football because he chooses to
     
    3000 and Annoying noises like this.
  11. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    Like Groucho Marx said "the secret of life is honesty and fair dealing.If you can fake that you've got it made"
     
  12. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I’m confused.

    Overall we’re generally not playing badly at the moment.

    We just have a few awful players, who every year give up when we are safe. We go on this slump every year, irrespective of manager.

    We have no attack. We can dominate, but our heads start to drop when we don’t score and we start to fall apart.

    We have no defence. We practically set up the oppositions goals for them.

    So Javi’s role is difficult.

    However, he doesn’t seem to have gelled yet, his tactics are one dimensional and he’s making subs far too late.

    Based on what I’ve seen thus far, I suspect Javi, after a full preseason, could keep us up but little else.
     
  13. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    If we don’t score at Huddersfield it’s likely Gracia finishes the season without an away goal to his name and some thumping defeats. Doesn’t fill me with much confidence for next year.
     
  14. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I think we can all accept that away games are typically harder, especially against the bigger teams, but we can't approach next season having written off 19 matches as guaranteed losses.

    Do we even have a strategy for away games?
     
  15. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Yes, don't score and concede.
     
  16. 3000

    3000 Reservist

    I’m happy for Gracia to have pre season and an opportunity to bring some new players into the mould. Our problems run far deeper than just the head coach, there are some deep problems systematically with our set up.

    On a side note, Andre Gray can not have any complaints whatsoever that he is not getting on the pitch. He started every game regardless of his fruitless contribution at the start of the season so now it’s Deeney’s turn to do nothing up front. All our strikers need to be replaced.
     
    Cthulhu likes this.
  17. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    The issue is that due to injuries and poor signings he has a pretty poor collection of players to pick from. Defenders that can't defend and strikers that can't score. Not sure anyone else would do a much better job at the moment. Roll on the summer when we can appoint another manager we've never heard of with another style of play and herald another raft of cheap acquisitions we've never heard of.
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  18. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    But Gray can have complaints. One of them being that the team were playing much better as a whole when he was up front. The other being that he was dropped after scoring in consecutive games. Deeney has offered nothing in recent weeks and Okaka even less. You won’t hear anyone arguing that we don’t need new strikers - but given what those two are serving up right now, Gray has a right to be aggrieved that he isn’t being given a chance.

    And to your first point - I’m not against him staying but Gino has to be sure. The absolute worst thing this club can do is be 70% sure about him, let him have an input on players and then start next season how we seem to be ending this one. We don’t want to be 10 games deep and realise keeping him was a mistake. Gino has to be fairly certain that isn’t going to happen. As it stands, I wouldn’t be.
     
    Watfordftw, Manatleisure and Chumlax like this.
  19. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    We have recent video evidence that Gray has been equally appalling in training so he's got no right to feel aggrieved at all really.

    It's no surprise gracia is sticking with the terd sandwich rather than going for the dung baguette...
     
  20. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    He might have a right to feel somewhat aggrieved over the sample size of that recent video evidence...
     
  21. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Can we please put to bed, at least for this season, the circular argument about the poor performance of our strikers? Striker X plays and doesn't score so everyone shouts for striker Y to play/come on as sub. Striker Y
    doesn't score so everyone shouts for striker Z to play/come on as sub.
    Striker Z doesn't score... and so on. Almost all managers these days are frightened their team will be 'outnumbered in midfield' so they revert to some variation of a formation that includes only one striker and expect goals to come from midfielders/wingers. Unfortunately strikers who can make these systems work are very few and far between and therefore hugely expensive. They need to be:
    1. Able to receive the ball from all heights and angles and hold and release it correctly for a cohesive attack.
    2. Very mobile to shift the opposition defence around by running towards either corner as well as through the middle.
    3. A good finisher and regular goal scorer.
    We have no-one who can do all three. Deeney can do number 1, but is poor at 2 and 3. Gray can do number 2, but is very poor at 1 and 3. And Okaka can probably do none of them on a regular basis, particularly on the evidence of his last two sub appearances. So, unless we sign the new Didier Drogba, a lone striker formation is not going to work, no matter how many times we cycle through these three. Surely the best option is to find a way of playing that includes a strike partnership.
     
  22. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Pretty much agree, except I think Deeney is actually a good finisher. The problem now is that PL defenders are nowadays lots more mobile than he is, so he can hardly ever get into scoring opportunities. (and his jumping is declining, too).
     
  23. R4E

    R4E Reservist

    Spot on. Surely you try to do the best with what you have, and in our case we have 3 strikers all completely unsuited to playing on their own, but who all have proven to be effective as part of a front two. Unfortunately our last 3 head coaches have been pretty stubborn about playing with a lone striker over and over again.
     
  24. Oscar calling

    Oscar calling Squad Player

    Offer Joka whatever he wants if Fulham don't get up through the play offs.
     
    KelsoOrn, 3000, Norwayhornet and 2 others like this.
  25. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Ukpeazu was supposed to be the next Drogba :)
     
  26. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK First Year Pro

    I think many of the previous comments are a bit harsh, Gracia has been trying a few different things where he has had options, probably be shot down as enforced or lucky now but I'll say it anyway:

    Capoue brought back in and certainly played a lot better for a while.
    Femenia pushed further forward, Carillo out.
    Pereyra starting games in the middle and looking good.
    Recently Richarlison out, Hughes in the middle, Pereyra left and both looking good.
    We have dominated some games in midfield under him.

    He hasn't broken Janmaat for ages and he has been playing better.
    Karnezis in for Gomes, sure it'll be 50/50 on whether that is good or not but he's mainly done OK (cue 5-0 comments)

    Britos, back, tried it, went badly, hasn't done it again. Very few central defensive options available to him, maybe with Cathcart and Kabasele coming back he will be able to change it up.

    We all know the striking issues, my only real criticism here is that you try the bulldozer approach with Deeney, it doesn't work, so rather than try adding a different style in Gray you try two bulldozers and hope that works better.

    Genuinely think he has changed things more than most seem to be giving him credit for, where he can, steadied the ship and deserves to take it into next season with a pre-season and hopefully more players available to him.
     
  27. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    I hear third hand that Gracia is respected among players (senior and juniors), the background staff and club leadership. They believe he is a good leader and has improved the spirit at the club. Slither, even at the start, was divisive. Making decisions behind the scenes that have been quickly reversed. If the team remain in a position to retain Premier League status he will remain all of next season.
     
  28. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    I'm happy to hear that with one condition:
    Could he please either do up his zip on his tracksuit top or remove it?!
     
  29. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    Most of you know I agree with this. If it were up to me Gray plays every week and Deeney or maybe Okaka comes on last 20 to assist up front when the opposition defence has been given the runaround by Gray Hughes and Pereyra and their cojones aren't what they were start of the match. With the possibility of 2 up front at home to score some goals so conceding is potentially less costly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  30. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    It was 6 foot over the bar from 3 yards.

    That’s quite statistical in its own right.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  31. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    You may sign off as Lancyclaret but you write like WHertsYellow.

    Intriguing.
     
  32. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    We may laugh but isn’t that why Ssssliva was fired from Porto (or wherever)?
     
  33. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Based on what Danny Welbeck heard over the hedge at L Colney?
     
  34. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    Similar to Danny Welbeck on Sunday ?

    But then again Arsenal created more chances for him to score
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    A weak defence in his case by he may have a right to say that it was top corner in a full size goal...
     

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