Gino Pozzo - Owner

Sorry. What is your point?

 

You are only surprised because you didn't read or understand my post. I said, in my 7th paragraph, that I would be pleased with avoiding relegation under certain circumstances.

In many years of running teams and businesses, I set targets that have nothing whatsoever to do with retaining or sacking and nothing to do with what the Company required. They are based on what I and the individual or team judges to be tough and attainable. In fact, I used to get them to set the targets whenever I could, rather than impose them myself. It always tends to get a better "buy in" from the individuals.

The sacking part only comes into it when I see the effort being put in. I would be much happier with someone who battles the best they can to achieve a target late in the year, than I would be with someone who cruises to their target halfway through, and then sits back.

So, in the football sense, within reason, the target has little to do with whether someone is sacked (unless it is in the contract, of course), it is about whether they achieve the best, or near best, with their squad and what will they be able to do next year. I have serious doubts about next year with QSF when I see how low his standards are (if true).

Yes, after reaching 7th by Christmas, playing average, with a new squad and coach, we should have improved in the second half of the season rather than sit-back thinking our work was done. We could have achieved a Euro spot.

But "failure" to reach it would not have been a failure providing we did our best to achieve it. To have tried and just failed a tough target is far better than just managing a much easier target.

Did the Leicester squad look like a Champions squad at 5,000 to 1? It really is the sum of the parts, the spirit, the ambition, the belief in a football team rather than the individual skills.

 

I'm happy with the outcome of the season but deeply unhappy at the means used and not at all convinced that it is sustainable or replicable.

 

We signed Amrabat to help correct that, but he's not great either (even aside from his stupid collection of yellow cards).

 

Better, because we didn't see that there was clear potential for anything else.

As someone said some time ago, repeating the same error in the hope of a different outcome is not a recipe for success.

 

Has it crossed your mind that an incredible amount of money is also coming the way of every other club in the Prem? It won't make us more competitive unless we spend it better than the others do.

 

Erm yeah funnily enough that had crossed my mind. But we've been more than competitive at the first time of asking compared to bigger and more established clubs. So what makes you think they'll suddenly spend their money any better than they have in the last few years? We clearly upgraded our squad last summer and that'll happen again this summer.

 

I said this too.

It was obvious even when we were winning:

A. That we needed a plan B, as we would inevitably go behind/ teams would learn to counter us
B. That we couldn't continue to rely on Ighalo
C. That we needed to rotate more, as, especially with such a high pressing game, we were always going to fade.

Not rotating during the January period, especially in games which we were unlikely to win and demanded very high work rate, was criminal. Our form has never really recovered.

 

I'm starting to think the Pozzos are Trotskyists.

 

We have moved on. You should too.

Being relegated with the Pozzo resources would have been a huge underachievement. This was the very minimum achievement, rather than the main one. Performance, training methods and squad morale are vitally important to Gino, as saw with McKinlay and Beppe.

The FA cup run was a welcome distraction, but basically consisted of one good performance. We were lucky to get through against championship teams to get there, after a few open goal misses which we gifted in the final minutes.

Personally, the one year clause suggests that this was always Gino's intention. Consolidate us in the league, and then bring in an exciting manager like Southampton, Leicester etc. He is not one to sit on his laurels.

 

Part of your problem is summed up in the phrase 'my 7th paragraph'.

 

Admit it, you didn't actually read beyond the first short sentence did you?

 

The one year clause was put in by Quique.

 

I obviously chuck a lot of **** then, because a lot of what I have said and been criticised for, has stuck

 

Pfft, you don't know what you are talking about. Of course it's sustainable and replicable because we did it THIS year dummy.

 

I agree to a certain extent, but I think QSF's real saviour has been Gomez, because we would probably still have lost a fair few of the games even when Igahlo was hitting the net had it not been for HG!

 

Well, I certainly would never suggest that I always get it right. But when we are talking about a culture, it is a subjective matter, and those things have to be explained more fully to help people like you understand. On such an emotional issue, like the football club many of us have supported for years I do not feel I should make my points glibly. When someone raises a question, I try and answer fully again. Usually it works, but sometimes it doesn't as the other poster ignores what I write and just takes a personal pot shot instead.

You cant always cater for ignorance..

 

I've attended almost all games this season and, with a handful of exceptions, have enjoyed watching a solid and well drilled WFC team compete on equal terms with some of the best teams in Europe. There's more to watching football than goals, corners, oohs and aahs, you know.

 

Quite. So tell us now which of our squad would make it into the squads of the teams currently chasing the Euro positions? My guess is that we have 6 or 7 only and that's counting two goalkeepers and possibly being generous.

I completely agree that we can't go on with the same football, but I'm not sure we can immediately jump to that football = Quique. I think he has shown a peerless grasp of the relative talents and form of his players and that he would recognise good attacking options when they join this summer.

I think by wildly claiming we could have managed a Euro spot you devalue what has been achieved and how hard it is to maintain.

I trust the Pozzos will leave us in safe hands if Quique leaves or stays.

 

I used to very much enjoy Lloyd Doyley shielding the ball to allow it to run into touch for a goal kick and would have been highly alarmed had he tried to actually play football.

 

Sorry, I usually enjoy and mostly agree with your posts, but I'm with Moose here - to claim we could/should have achieved a Euro spot with the limited set of players we have is rubbish.

You say it was possible because we got to 7th playing average. The alternate and more realistic view, is that Ighalo's goals papered over the cracks and we got us good as we could get, and we didn't have a big enough squad to consolidate our high position, let alone push on to the next level.

After the Forest game, I remember you lamenting that we didn't have the kind of players who could consistently run forward with the ball or create space, hence our continued problems with breaking down teams that set up to stop us playing. There was no evidence at the time you were placing any blame on QSF, so what's changed your thinking this time?

As for Leicester, just like Greece at Euro 2004, this has been a freak season for them of the type that will likely never occur again in our lifetime, if ever. Doesn't mean any club whatever size shouldn't aspire for that kind of success, but equally that doesn't mean that where we are has been for want of trying for better on QSF and the players' part.

 

But again, you are missing the point. I have already said that it is not about individuals.

But last August, how many of the Leicester squad (all of whom we had seen the previous season) would you have suggested would have slotted into any of the top few sides. Would you have replaced Aguero or Cain with Vardy or Mahrez, or Kompany with Huth, or Fabregas with Kante? Of course not.

WFC were playing average football with a new squad and new coach, yet we were 7th. We should have kicked on (or at least tried to) and improved as our squad jelled together.

Just give me one reason why QSF has been "peerless in his grasp for recognising relative talent and form" as you describe. Which player was that, and when?

 

not this year, no, it hasn't. ( been sustained.)

 

I partly agree. If we had serious injuries to say Gomes and a couple of centre backs we would have struggled to improve as our strong defence would have been fractured and understandably we would have had to play more defensively.

Re Forest, Yes, I said this after the Forest game.

Forest sat back, and our forward play was diabolically slow. We were so, so, so boring.

and this...

But how anyone can get excited over our boys passing square or backwards for most of the match against a mid-table side in the division below, is beyond me.

But you are right, passing square is better than lumping it upfield hopefully, or passing it forward to one of their players, which is what happened when we tried to get it forward. We just ended up giving it away.

We seem to have no-one who could run forward with the ball, and there is very little movement into space ahead of the ball, leaving very little option but passing sideways or back.

I find that slightly worrying more than I find that exciting.

But that is, in my view, a symptom of the tactics and responsibilities that QSF puts on them. They are scared, to scared to run with it and lose it, to scared try a defence cutting pass and the forwards are not coached to be more mobile.

The shackles were thrown off a bit at West Ham and we saw what some midfield players can do. Beat players, run forward with the ball, comfortably cope with quick inter-passing movements between the players. Then they were quickly re-shackled at Wembley. Most of these players are Internationals, they are not mugs and it is down to the coach to get the best out of them.

We saw QSF give a bit of feedback about one of our most exciting prospects Penenaranda, last month. What did he say? Something like, "he needs to learn how to defend more".

Re Leicester, yep, maybe. But a season over 38 games is nothing like the freak of Greece winning a few cup games. But they will still be a good top half side next season, I expect, and will play in the Champions League, boosting their exposure. They will probably be able to attract better players than us and strengthen their squad even more.

 

Lack of fibre.

 

I am he as you are he as you are me and Moog is everybody.

 

If you are not enjoying it, why do you think there is nothing to complain about? If you think that more positivity may include getting rid of Quique, why can't you see you agree with the rest of us?

No one is complaining that we've stayed up. So why do you imply they are?

You are clearly intelligent, but on this occasion you have simply let your superiority complex blind you to the fact that you do feel the same as us, but can't let yourself be seen to have such a weekness.

 

Lol is really that what you think, superiority complex? Don't be ridiculous.

What I do know is Gino won't stand for turgid football and then just watch as other clubs make blockbuster deals elsewhere. Quique has done what he was brought into do with a limited set of players, who knows he can achieve now we have significant resources and who knows how much the football can improve?

If Gino has doubts he will act but in the meantime I suggest a little bit of 'let's suck it and see'.

 

Why didn't you just say you agreed with us in the first place.

And yes, you have something of a superiority complex. It is not a compliment, but it does usually lead to some amusing posts from yourself that can be entertaining to read if not taken entirely seriously.

 

How the hell can a rarely attending poor brickie have a superiority complex?

And never take my posts seriously, 'Tongue in Cheek' is my middle name.

 

Good on you.

 

Post of the season. And last season. And the season before that. You couldn't have put into words how I feel better than that.

 

Interesting comments from Berghuis in an article on WD:

So basically, the lack of attacking intent/setup is indeed entirely by design...i.e. it's down to tactical instructions, not the players themselves.

Article I C+Ped from:

http://www.wdsport.co.uk/2016/04/st...erience-another-watford-season-like-this-one/

 

Please tell me it hasn't taken you this long to work that out??

 

I aired my concerns about QSF viewing LM/RM as defensive positions and got shot down. Glad this has come to light.