[SOLD] Gerard Deulofeu

I always thought his movement was pretty decent and he does have a knack for getting on the end of things, whereas the rest of our strikers seem to be in a different post code when chances present themselves.

His first touch is dreadful, but it doesnt help we try play like he is Deeney pinging balls at him with his back to goal.

 

I don’t think he does need to reinvent himself. My opinion is that he’s always been a confidence player and that comes with regular football. And he’s utilised far better in a partnership. Whenever he’s been first choice in his career, he’s scored goals at a healthy rate. He’s never been regular first choice here.

I don’t see that changing and at best he will be backup - and because of that, we are unlikely to get that confidence into him. I genuinely think he’s likely still a competent Championship striker in the right conditions. But we won’t afford him those and if I were him, for the good of my career, I’d be asking to move on.

 

I don't see who'd want him, and I'm presuming he'll want to leave for more money and not a cut - mind you we don't know if he had a relegation wage drop clause or similar.

If Ivic can see some use in him, it might be a tactic to start him a few games in hope he scores a few and therefore attracts interest. When he first joined I initially thought him and Deeney up top would work well as both are better in a two, though from the sounds of it Ivic isn't really a 2 up top coach unless he does have a 3-5-2 up his sleeve.

I'm desperately hoping I eat humble pie here and Andre bags 20 goals this season.

 

Vydra, Deeney and Forestieri were not punts in our promotion season. All were well established at the club by then. Ighalo was the only newcomer that season.

I’ve not said that we should prioritise attack over defence this transfer window. I’m just saying I don’t think we should be averse to strengthening the attack too, especially should Welbeck and Deeney leave.

It’s just my opinion but I think too many people are underestimating the Championship and playing ‘fantasy football’ with regards to our line up next season. Expecting a newcomer from Spain and a teenager from Brazil who has barely featured for us to immediately start bulldozing the league. I’ve little doubt that over the season both will be terrific and exciting additions to our side but I just think people are being over enthusiastic too soon. Ditto with Gray. He’s not scored a competitive goal for months. His prolific Championship season was four or five years ago. If Welbeck stays, the probability is he will get injured soon into the season. Deeney is not a free flowing goal scorer any longer. Capone and Hughes barely scored last season. In my opinion we are light of goals. You can’t suddenly assume that by dropping down a division everything will come good and everybody will start banging in 20 goals for the season.

 

The last time Gray played in the Championship, he was the league's top scorer, he must have been doing something right even if half of his goals were just tap ins.

 

100% agree.

 

Speaking as an ex-striker, there are no such things as tap-ins

 

I assume that's why you're an ex-striker

 

Looked a completely different player in all honesty.

 

See my posting on the championship thread. In the 10 years up to 3 years ago only 1 in every 5 relegated teams finishes in the auto promotion spots back in the champ.

 

Ok maybe Grant is not a likely target especially if premier league teams are after him but I don’t think it is totally inconceivable for us to spend around 15m especially on a younger player with future resale value.

If we manage to shift some players and their wages and get some fees in it’s not unreasonable to think there might be some investment. If not Grant there will be other options and other players who have good scoring records in the lower leagues. I agree it is difficult to guarantee a 20 goal a season striker but I don’t agree that there are no options and therefore we have to stick with Gray and Deeeney as they are just as much a risk as anyone else we might get in. I like Suarez and Pedro as options but I’m not convinced that Gray and Deeney goal scoring records in the Championship are anywhere near recent enough to provide confidence. Better the devil you don’t know imo.

 

I don’t disagree - but who? It seems to me we want a fairly unique player who fits many criteria and is affordable. People said Shonn Weismann and I don’t disagree - but he’s never played in England and would be as much of a punt as Suarez, in which case what’s the advantage?

I just sense people want a striker who is guaranteed to score 20+ and pay around £10m for him. I don’t see who that is who that is...

 

That ball through at 57 seconds - I would love to see one of our midfielders do that. I've criticised our forwards on here but one thing I will say in their defence is that they've had very little decent service from behind them.

 

Our current Gray would miss the corner flag around the 1 minute 15 mark.

 

I always assumed Gray was fast.

I think he was fast when he scored lots of goals.

Now, he’s slow. He won’t score the goals we need.

 

Defensive players - under invested - performed as expected.
Attacking players - decent investment - greatly under performed last season.

If the attacking part of the team had performed as expected, like the defence, we would of easily been safe.

We have lots of potentially good attacking players, but if they are not going to perform as expected this season we are better rid of them.

GD was one of our better players, but I still think delivered less than expected.

 

For me the biggest challenge is probably shifting Gray and Deeney even for 5m plus as there would also be significant freed up wages.

I don’t expect a guaranteed 20 goal a season striker but someone who provides an alternative option to Suarez and Pedro. If I’m honest I don’t have sufficient knowledge of the various options out there to say specifically who we should get but I’d hope the scouts might know more than me. Perhaps someone from the lower divisions could make the step up. I’m happy for them to take a punt as nothing is guaranteed but ideally a well informed and educated punt. This was always a big challenge in the premiership to get a proven goal scorer. Whilst it’s still a big challenge it should hopefully be a little easier to get a championship goal scorer.

 

Have to say I have quite a lot of sympathy for Gray.

It's a tough gig to play second choice to your talisman club captain in a one-striker setup when you're really suited to playing in a two.

Statistically speaking, last season he actually delivered more than most.

No other player in our squad got into more goal-scoring/assist-creating positions per 90 minutes (NPxG90+xA90) than he did (0.55). To put that into context, that's similar to Ings (0.54), Jiminez (0.57) and the beloved Vydra (0.54). Even as good as Kane (0.52) and Aubamayang (0.55) if you wanted to go there (but I wouldn't as both played a lot more minutes and are obviously not playing at a truly comparable set up with what they have around them). What this does tell me is that his movement or positional awareness arent really the problem.

Once he's in these positions, his willingness to shoot doesn't seem to be an issue either. He is taking a shot every 39 minutes he plays, 3rd only behind Delufeou (33) and Welbeck (39) and ahead of Sarr (46), Doucouré (52), Deeney (56) and Pereyra (79). He's also hitting the target more often than most. Only Welbeck (every 91 minutes) and Delufeou (every 100 minutes) had more frequent shots on target when they were playing, better than Deeney (every 124 minutes) and Sarr (156 minutes). So he's got both confidence and an ability to get it on target.

Ultimately, however, you have to beat the keeper when your number 1 job is as a goalscorer. But here too his stats are good. He scored more often than any other player last season (every 373 mins) vs. 406 for Sarr, 408 for Welbeck, 447 for Deeney and 526 for Delufeou.

And his goal-scoring record throughout his career has been just under 1 in 2 - only when played predominantly off the bench with us has this dropped significantly. To me this seems to be the defining point, by process of elimination as much as anything - he's not playing regularly enough and finding a groove

So in summary, here's a guy who when played makes a load of chances, has the confidence and ability to make something of it and can actually find the back of the net more frequently than most in the team. He seems to be a victim of the system and being made to play in Deeney's (not insignificant) shadow.

Whether or not that means he justifies his salary (being offered which is not his fault) or is worth keeping on next season in light of that and the clubs financial needs is another matter, but on reflection from a purely footballing standpoint think he could have a role to play in the Championship.

 

Anticipation makes them tap ins

 

Gray is the 2020 version of Will Hoskins

The longer he is out of the team, the more people start to reminisce about his previous goalscoring exploits and produce increasingly niche stats showing that "if you filter for shots taken with the left foot in the 56th minute of a game, hes actually in the top 5 most clinical strikers in the league!"

Then he gets on the pitch, controls a pass into row z or scuffs a sitter or loses a foot race with a 40 year old Gary Cahill etc. and the illusion shatters once again

Not good enough, never was

 

Great analysis though it won't play to many peoples agenda/perception.

 

xA90, fair enough, if you create a good chance, you've done your bit, but xG90 stats are a bit flawed in the sense that if they give you a good chance but you fluff it, that's your mistake, unless you play your part in the move, what's so great about having 10 xG or whatever when you only score twice? Also, stats can be deceiving when you play so little football, I'd like to see his stats for the previous two seasons when he played more. Gray is alright when you gear everything towards him, he did well in 18/19 when we played a front 2, with him often coming off the bench against tired legs, but if not, he's not much good. I'd get rid, although I imagine there won't be many takers given what we supposedly want for him and his wages

 

If this is Andre Gray, who the **** did we sign?

 

I generally don't hide the fact that I really dislike this ex-scummer, homophobic, racist, lockdown breaking, £18m former record signing, who, if rumours are true costs in the region of £4m pa in wages.

However, looking at this highlights reel if he replicated a bit of that I may voice it less frequently. I know we have all said it but what we have been lacking for years is the guy that is in the right place at the right time, don't have to be the most skillful player on earth but there to tap it in when the keeper parries it or it comes back of the post, etc... In this video he is that bloke quite often.

Even in this he doesn't seem to be able to outpace anybody or have much of a touch so guessing he never has but he seems to be there to get it over the line, I'd forgive some of his footballing shortfalls if he did that for us.

Get rid!

 

Let the moneyball crew have their fun.

 

Do agree on the NPxG90 element for strikers (made this point in another Sarr thread I think) as its only an indication on the ability to get into dangerous positions, not take them. Which is why I was keen to look at them alongside how many shots he gets away, how many of them are on target, and how many of them end up in the back of the net. All of these also seem favourable, though do take the point that all stats are skewed for players with few minutes (would do a longer term view if I had the time).

I won't defend his off the field behaviour, and I'm not saying he's value for money either, just that you can see how he'd be useful on the pitch (especially in The Championship) if he had more opportunity to play than he has been given.

 

Have been the first to say stats aren't everything but hopefully you can see I haven't looked at particularly narrow statistics here.

However, just for you I've had a look at 'Big Chances Missed' as couldn't find 'Scuffed Sitters' when I googled it. As a proportion of their total shots from open play, for Gray 16% were 'Big Chances Missed' whereas both Deeney and Welbeck were guilty of 23% being 'Missed Sitters'. So Gray is no worse than either of the other two who might regularly play in his position (may not be saying much).

Similarly couldn't find a specific stat for 'Miscontrolling a Pass into Row Z' but did have a look at 'Unsuccessful Touches'. On this you might have a point. 12% of Gray's touches last season were unsuccessful, compared to 5% of Deeney and Delefeous, 6% of Sarrs and 7% of Welbecks. More evidence that this isn't the guy to play up top on his own holding up play, he needs to be playing off the striker in a two.

I couldn't find anything for sprint speed however Gary Cahill has a rating of 40 on FIFA 20 whilst Gray has a sprint speed of 86 so that has to count for something.

 

Must be nice to be whiter than white.

 

It's quite telling that the first point was 'ex-scummer'.

 

For one game?

 

It is what it is. In the premier league you’ve got a team that put 12 past us without reply and 18 if you include the cup final, yet still didn’t win the league. The bottom team in the premier league earns £100m, TV revenue is the championship is £5m, plus gate receipts Of in the majority of cases no more than £10m.

Whichever what you slice it there is a significant gulf in quality, all of of our players should perform a lot better comparatively, as in the most part (Or in fact probably in every game) the standard of player and opposition will all be of a lower standard than anything they faced last season, in some cases significantly so. Most of the players they face will never play in the premier league.

 

Not sure what you are getting at there Burnsy. Am I white, yes I am but if you are suggesting that my comments are racially motivated then you may need to explain that to me.

Which part of the rest of my comments do you have a problem with?

 

Is this comment socially acceptable?

 

So why do only 1 in 5 relegated clubs go back up in the 2 auto promotion places first attempt over last 10 years ? The gulf in income is why we need to sell all the quality players and bring us down to champ standard.