General World Cup Thread

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Otter, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. To be fair he's not beating them up, he's just saying he doesn't understand why they are seen as heroes. I agree. The team and Southgate deserve a bit of credit but to call them heroes is unjustified and make out that it's a major achievement is crazy. The draw got us to the SF, not any giantkillings. They beat who they were expected to beat and didn't beat who they weren't expected to beat but could have beaten. Nothing more.

    The comment was made that we at least beat the minnows who occasionally trip us up. I can't think of any minnows who have knocked us out bar Iceland once. It's always been Germany, Argentina, Portugal, Brazil and we fortunately didn't get to play anyone that good (bar Belgium who beat us).

    And of course we got the penalty monkey off our back....for now !

    Of course we would have won it had Wilshere been there.
    dynamo380 likes this.
  2. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    I don’t imagine “proper” football fans do see them as heroes. Most will surely take the view that they performed to the best of their abilities, weren’t disgraced in any game, and played like a team with good spirit - and given years of disappointment following England, all of those are things to be grateful for. It’s the media that is hyping it up, but that’s the way our media works: it’s either famine or feast (sorry to bring Deeney into this).
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    HappyHornet24 and Happy bunny like this.
  3. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I did think we played quite well for 45 minutes last night tbf but after that were 2nd best - maybe to be expected in a way as Croatia couldn't be any worse.

    The feeling a connection bit is right - you only have to look at the general press like the tabloids.

    Haven't been many sneering articles about the WAGS or how over paid and unpassionate the players are..

    All mainly because the players and Southgate have been very media savvy letting them watch training and speaking to them - again easier when your doing well.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  4. The feel good factor, "all in this together", has been great. Though that would have disappeared very early on had we not got the last minute winner against Tunisia !!!!
    dynamo380 and wfc4ever like this.
  5. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    That will take the shine off it for them. You deserve a medal m8.
  6. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Very true or lost against Colombia - fine margins and all that!

    Also we haven't got a villain to blame for being sent off or a bad mistake - well apart from Sterling I guess.

    And we didn't go well in the rugby which usually gets favourable compared to football when things go wrong..
  7. I think Sterling was the "default" and unfortunately for him no-one screwed up sufficiently to replace him.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  8. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    A positive, fun tournament overall which gives hope for the future.


    Idiot fans throwing beer in the air.

    Rashford looked very average, and
    most other bench options were poor.

    The horrific "footballs coming home" celebrity montage including some awful cosmetic surgery on Simon Cowell's face.
    Hornpete likes this.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    There are things I wish we'd done differently.

    Croatia outsmarted us. They pressed our back line with unwavering energy, preventing us from playing our chosen game, of passing around the back until something opened up.

    We didn't have a plan B and I think we should have gone 4 at the back from early in the second half. Southgate will need to be more tactically flexible if we're to go that little bit further. You can't have a one size, fitz Hall approach to international tournament football.

    One criticism was that we stuck with the same 11 players, largely, throughout, which on the one hand gave us consistency, but on the other, meant that several of them looked knackered or not fully fit last night. I can't stop mentioning how appalling Kane was. Just 2 weeks ago we were lauding him as some sort of national hero, after his penalty scoring exploits, but last night he was by far the worst player on the pitch.

    In rebuttal to the above, we didn't have too many really good options in the squad. Rashford for Sterling was not truly successful, Vardy did nothing when he came on, Delph is Delph, Dier is a very mediocre player at international level etc. Rose, to be fair, gave a good account of himself and was arguably our best player after he came on.

    Our squad did not have players we could bring off the bench at 2-1 down who could offer that bit of difference going forwards, either to create something or to get on the end of something. We are limited in that regard.

    Overall, Croatia did a job on us. They were more experienced, played "the game" with fouls, time wasting and carrying the ball away, etc. to rile our players, but also to cancel out our game plan and counter with their own.

    Tactically they got it spot on and we didn't and our personnel were just not good enough on the day. Kane, Young, Alli and Henderson all had probably their worst games of the tournament. Walker always has an error a game in him.

    We got to a semi final. For England, that is progress. Denigrate it any way you like, but this was the best world cup in 28 years for us. That is unarguable and so gives these players something to be proud of, even taking into account my criticisms above.
  10. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Should we have a Logan’s Run style age cap?

    No one over, say, 27 in the squad.
  11. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    The heroes were in Thailand.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  12. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Appalling? Abject? Jeez you're beyond negative!

    We were by far the better team in the first half playing really clever football and should have been further ahead at h.t.. Had Kane and Lingard put their chances away we'd have won it. But they didn't and that's football. Sure, Croatia came on strong in the second half (football is a 'game of two halves' after all) which wasn't entirely surprising given that they have a Real Madrid and Barcelona play-maker in their midfield. But in no way did we 'bottle' it. You need to get a grip mate.

    The best thing about this World Cup as far as England are concerned is the re-connect between the team, its management, the fans and the nation.

    Over the previous decades the England football team has been something of a joke. A team of prima-donnas managed by another prima-donna and playing negative and losing football.

    Now that's changed. Southgate has conducted himself impeccably, his team have bought into the wholesomeness and humility of his approach and that can only bode well for the future. He has brought back mutual respect.

    Sure we might have been expected to beat the likes of the teams that we did. But we did. So what then? But appalling, abject, 'bottled it'. Do me an effing favour.

    You're right to criticise the media for winding up the heroic bit. But for too long they've cultured the 'self-entitled' bit and now you're doing exactly the same thing. We 'should' have reached the final and then, no doubt, you would have made a case that we 'should' beat France and win the whole damn thing or otherwise we'd be appalling, abject and would have 'bottled it'. Self-entitlement at its best!

    So my suggestion to you is that, if that's the negative way that you choose to support your team, then you either do a runner or melt quietly into the background. And if that's the way you choose to support WFC (as others have suggested) then it might be best if you made one of those two choices regarding your supposed club team as well.

    p.s. to all. I would absolutely love it if Croatia were to stick it to the French on Sunday. Nothing would be better for the World Cup in general, and to continue the internationalism that this tournament, impeccably staged by the Russians, has engendered, than for a really small country of 4.2 million to win it. C'mon u Croats!
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    Happy bunny likes this.
  13. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    At the end of the day, though nothing, nothing will keep us together, we can beat them, forever and ever, oh, we can be heroes just for one day.
  14. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    So basically, if we don't agree with your assessment of how an international football team played, we should go and support a different club team?

    Logic at its finest.
  15. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I've been to Croatia twice, with a gap of 15 years in between and every single person I met was horrible.
  16. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Well, from what I've read on here, he's similarly negative around WFC as well. If that is indeed the case then I'd be grateful if he f.cked off. I can't be doing with 'abject' negativity.
    cyaninternetdog likes this.
  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Sounds a bit anti-Kramari* m8
  18. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    It was high, but so was Walker quite low with his attempted header, a 50/50 decision for the ref that could have gone either way.
  19. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Did you! However, if the Croats win it, I'm seriously considering a long weekend in Dubrovnik. If that pans out I'll report back.
  20. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Best team won, experince beat inexperience. All they did was close us down and block our out ball to the wb's forcing us to hoof it down the middle to a heavily outnumbered Kane which meant we had to face wave after wave of attacks. We'll come again I have no doubt. All in all its been a fun journey.
    KelsoOrn likes this.
  21. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    On the one hand, we haven’t seen this level of unity over England in my lifetime. International football was actually fun. That isn’t something to be scoffed at. Watching England for so long has been a chore.

    However, today seems bitter. I’m not buying this heroes stuff either. We will never have an easier run to a final. It’s all good saying ‘look who went out earlier’, but top teams were generally eliminated early because they were in a freakishly hard side of the fixture list.

    I think most teams eliminated after the group stages in that section would have gone on to become finalists in our section. The standard was that poor. I bet no team has ever reached a final without playing a top 15 team in the knockouts. I bet no team has got to the semi final without scoring as few non-set piece goals as we did, which illustrates how one dimensional we were.

    So this tournament should be seen as a small step forward, but also a missed opportunity. We have a likeable team, we’ve played better football, but we’re lacking any depth in quality. Southgate (and primarily his PR team, who have clearly been working closely with the media), deserves credit, But he also needs to be less naive for the Euros.
  22. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Never a foul. Walker obviously went with his head and the Croat, cleverly, got in with his boot first. Nothing to see here. Football isn't for nancys.
  23. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    The ignore button is brilliant.
  24. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    I disagree. The ignore button is only for those who wish to disengage with their principal combatants. I however always wish to engage with them!
  25. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

  26. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    You make some good points UEA, but so does Nath, I think a cross between your two posts would be about the most accurate summation.

    We had a reasonable tournament overall and we did seem to have a good team spirit, but I agree with Nath that calling the team brave heros is OTT, especially as in the KO stages we played teams who were mostly of a similar standard to ourselves and depending on the day they were the sort of games that could have gone either way. OK we managed to win most of those games, but that hardly made us heros and quite frankly our performances were not that great in most of those games.

    As to last night, I think we under performed hence why many of us are frustrated not to have reached the final, which incidentally I do not think we would have won, in fact I fear we might have lost by 3 or 4 goals, but it would still have been nice to have been there.

    Right now I'm not of a mind to watch the 3rd 4th playoff on Saturday, but come the day I probably will.

    All in all we did not have a bad tournament, but the way the draw opened up for us, getting to the final should have been a realistic option, but Hey Ho the future looks bright especially if the youngsters who won their age group world cups live up to their potential.

    If they do I think football really could be coming home more than once over the next decade.
    dynamo380 likes this.
  27. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I read through this thinking: wow VoR really is making sense. I agree with everything you said.

    And then, in your very last line, you said that you expect we’ll win the next two world cups (or two of our next five tournaments if youre counting the Euros).

    Some of the best international sides of all time have struggled to do that.
  28. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Moog for Prime Minister. Pretty much sums up my feelings perfectly.

    This team has gotten the English public behind them again, that is something to be proud of.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  29. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I did not quite say that did I mike ;)

    I said IF our two young age group world cup winning players reached their potential "I think" that football really could be coming home more than once over the next decade.
  30. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  31. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    If our young players develop well and if other countries don't and if the stars align and if Love Island is cancelled and if we get a good draw and if its not too hot, then we may have a good chance at maybe football possibly coming home hopefully
  32. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Why is everyone.

    Doing posts like this now.

    Laconic sentences spaced apart?
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  33. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Thats the crux of it, we had a reasonable tournament despite playing fairly poorly for most of it and getting the luck of the draw with how the fixtures fell in the knock out stages. It was ultimately a missed opportunity.
  34. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    It's @Rookery Dad.

    His writing style.

    Is infectious.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  35. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    @Rookery Dad has brought the whole forum together.

    If it develops like it should we could see us maybe being entered for football website of the year possibly.

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