Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Otter, Jun 13, 2018.
Me too - Except for our Emma at the final.
Do you mean the Euros we are going to Win?
Don't know about all tournament but after 60 minutes tonight, the ref had given 15 fouls against Croatia as well as indicated that he'd played advantage at least three times from other fouls he'd seen. So, a minimum of 18 fouls in an hour, and the only yellow card he'd given was for dissent to Mandzukic.
Some of them were yellows in their own right - Sterling being pulled back when we were breaking, Kane being taken out by Lovren and Walker getting caught by a leading arm, and there should've been some for persistent fouling.
After Croatia equalised and were on top, I don't think they committed another foul in normal time so it was clearly a tactic and one that the ref let them get away with.
I thought we were awful tonight, simple as that. We had an amazing opportunity to make a World Cup final against a decent but beatable Croatia side, and in the end it was, for me, another case of England losing their bottle.
I think Southgate let us down tonight too. We needed a change in midfield before Croatia got the first goal but Southgate was sat on his hands and the inevitable of course then happened. I also don't understand what in the world he saw in Alli and Lingard's performances tonight (or the entire tournament, to be honest) to warrant them playing 120 minutes ahead of Loftus-Cheek either.
Not buying this "plucky little England did so well to make it this far!" crap either. Yes, we are relatively inexperienced, but we had an extremely favourable run, and we do actually have a squad littered with proven Premier League players, players of great potential, and arguably the best centre forward in the world. Unfortunately none of them turned up tonight.
It's great we made the semi-final, but given the way the draw panned out we 100% should have done, but when we finally came up against a side of some quality we simply melted away.
Well... maybe. I’ve had the impression that most refs have let the games flow nicely, albeit within the constraints of VAR.
So, you think we did well to get this far but you think we should have done better?
Loftus-Cheek was **** when he did play.
Yes and crystal meth according to the "Lewis" I've just watched. And "World Cup 1966" was a clue.
No, I don't think we "did well" to get this far, that's quite clearly my point. We did exactly what we should have done by making the semi-finals after the way the draw opened up for us and I'm not quite sure why exactly the media and certain groups of fans are acting like reaching the semi-finals on the back of beating some lesser teams than ourselves is some sort of win in itself for little 'ol England. It's nice that we got deeper into the tournament than we have done for a long time, but it counts for very little in the end when our performance in that round was as bad as it was tonight.
Never mind boys & girls. Another World Cup starts in a fortnight & it's one we have a chance of winning on home soil.
Did you expect us to get to the semi-finals before the tournament?
Players pull people back to stop counter. No yellow. Players allowed to repeatedly foul with no yellow. Tunisia were a disgrace in first game. Ditto Colombia 2nd round. And not just England games either.
Congrats to Croatia, they were the better side and deserved to win.
Our lack of creativity in this tournament is a real concern and some what surprising given some of the players we have. I like Southgate, who does deserve some credit, but we havent really played that well bar the odd 10-15 minute spell here and there.
Jesus, you’re a misery guts.
No one expected us to get to the semi-finals before the tournament.
Lots of obvious dissent allowed to slide too.
No, but I never expected before the tournament that to do that we'd only have to beat the likes of Tunisia, Panama, Colombia (without their best player) and Sweden. I did however fully expect us to beat all of those teams as we faced them and continued to have such a favourable run.
Not really sure what relevance expectations before the tournament have to the reality of how it actually panned out.
If you say so.
Personally I prefer to see flowing football rather than endless free kicks.
No. i fully expected us to get knocked out in the quarters by either Brazil or Germany before the tournament started. As it turned out we ended up with some very favorable fixtures
The point is not giving yellow cards lead to more free kicks and stoppages. Obviously. There was a point in in the Tunisia game where a player stood 5 yards from Trippier taking a free kick. Trippier complained. Ref waved player back. Player ignored him. Trippier complained again. Ref shrugged. Weak. Weak. Weak.
Well, that’s rather the point, isn’t it? They will have expected to reach the semi-finals, and did not. We did. Doesn’t strike me as a reason to be negative.
Still, I suppose there’s always someone who has to make the worst of everything.
He reminds me a bit of Zola. Nice guy, players like him, fans like him, respectful to the opposition but tactically questionable, no plan B and seems to have his favorites among the playing staff who always get picked no matter how bad or indifferent their performances
Completely agree with all of this.
OK. Point taken. But the downside of giving lots of yellow cards is that they often end up with reds, and consequently unbalanced matches. I”m not sure that is good for the tournament either.
To be honest, I’ve not really noticed the refereeing.
Fine. But give the guy a chance.
But what relevance do their expectations, results or performances prior to a ball being kicked have to us exactly? In the end we had an incredibly favourable run of fixtures to make the semi-final and we played a plethora of poor teams and lesser teams than ourselves that we absolutely should have beaten, as we did. I just don't see why that is being made out to be some sort of huge achievement or why people are suddenly acting like we're a nothing side with a lack of talent that should just be happy to have gotten this far.
We beat teams that everyone should have expected us to beat, we got to the semi-final after a likely once in a lifetime run in terms of the quality of sides we had to compete against, finally played a team of a similar standard, and performed appallingly to waste the chance of reaching the World Cup final. Sorry, but that doesn't leave me feeling ultra positive.
Yeah agreed. There is a balance. It's been too soft in my opinion.
Well, for one thing - isn’t it a bit arrogant to assume those teams are so much “lesser”? Colombia are only ranked three places below us, Croatia seven, and Tunisia eight. It’s not like we were taking on the Faroe Islands, Myanmar and Canada.
But even if you ignore that (and I acknowledge those rankings are laughable), we have an inexperienced team, and an inexperienced manager. Yet we did far better than (say) the far more experienced Germans, who didn’t exactly have the hardest group to get out of, did they?
I don’t agree that we played “appallingly” tonight. We were by far the best team in the first half. Yes, Croatia were better in the second, and I think they deserved to win. But they have very good players. Modric is world-class, far better than any player we have. We are a work in progress, yes, and I’m not saying it is a “huge achievement” to get to the SF. But I think we are perfectly entitled to be pleased with our performance overall.
Frankly, I think our loss to Palarse in 2016 was much more blameworthy than this.
He's been in the job for nearly two years, which is half way through his contract, and during that time we havent improved. I like Southgate and really do hope he's a success as England Manager.
I expect it was the context of going out to Iceland in our last knock out match before this, and being unable to win a single match at the 2014 finals. So with a less experienced manager and squad we did well imho. Roy Keane (I thought) made a good point when he observed that very few members of the team have won top cup competitions with their clubs. Lacking the experience to negotiate a semi final.
Isn't actually beating teams we should be beating and showing for once a bit of spine and fight clear signs of improvement? Don't forget in the Euros we had the chance to get to at least the quarter finals (if not further by winning our group and getting a favourable draw) by beating at least one of three "easy" teams in Russia, Slovakia and Iceland, all of which we failed to do miserably.
How have we not improved? We went out to Iceland in the first knockout round in the last tournament and didn’t get beyond the group stages in the last WC.
Maybe some people need to get a good nights sleep and get over the inevitable disappointment...
I don't think it's arrogant at all, I think it's simply fact. We almost inarguably have a squad of more talented and more proven top level players than every side that we beat in this tournament, especially considering Colombia were missing their star man. I don't see any fault in saying I fully expect England to be beating the likes of those sides.
Again I simply don't see the point in comparing us to other teams that failed. Yes Germany were awful and fell well below expectations, but what does that have to do with us? Had we not beaten the Colombia's and particularly Sweden's of this world it would have been disastrously poor, but I don't see it as any real sort of achievement that we did.
Had we beaten a quality side or two on our way to the semi's and then lost after a good performance I'd be saying you know what, we battled past some real quality sides to make it that far and we deserve credit for that and how we played in defeat. However, beating the teams we did to get there and then being quite so abysmal to go out against a no more than decent Croatia side, and bottling such a huge opportunity to make the final leaves me feeling nothing but disappointed and frustrated.
What is that? - I know we have the cricket world cup next year which we are supposed to be favourites for.
OK, well I won’t waste time trying to convince you. You are consistently the most pessimistic poster on this forum, so I suppose I should expect nothing less.
I’m 53 years old. I’ve seen two England WC semi-finals, and one Euro. I was disappointed in 1990 and 1996. I’m not that disappointed tonight, just as I wasn’t that disappointed when we lost to Southampton in 2003, or Utd. in 2007. I think the players have done as well as they can, to the best of their (limited) ability, and I prefer to take positives out of it, which is that I think there is scope to improve. If you would rather wallow in criticism and negativity, that’s your choice.
"Limited ability"? This is the myth I'm really, really just not buying into whatsoever and have no idea where exactly it's come from or why the media and fans are playing up to it. We have the following in our squad:
Kane - Considered by many as the best centre forward in the world
Alli - Proven Premier League performer and thought of as one of the best young midfielders in the world
Sterling - Consistent starter and performer in arguably the best Premier League team ever just this season gone (though I haven't rated his showings during this World Cup)
Walker - Most expensive English defender of all time, again a consistent starter and excellent performer for the Premier League champions
Stones - Premier League winner
Vardy - 57 Premier League goals in the past three seasons
Rashford - Thought of as one of the best up and coming young forwards in the world
Trippier - Showed his quality all season for Spurs and one of the stand out players in the entire tournament
Lingard - Consistent starter for the second best team in the country
Pickford - Very good young goalkeeper
To say the talent (or pedigree) in the squad is "limited" is quite honestly just rubbish. Certainly inexperienced at international level, but plenty of experience at Premier League level, even Champions League experience, and plenty of talent.
I'm not "wallowing in criticism and negativity", I'm just not going to get sucked into the idea that we did so brilliantly to get as far as we did all things considered, and I cannot fathom how anyone can not be extremely disappointed by the performance of our players and manager on such an important night that was such a huge opportunity.
Talent and pedigree isn't an issue, international experience might be, but tonight application, tactics and mentality certainly was.
How many of those players would get into Belgium’s team? And they lost too.
In fact, how many would get into Germany’s or Brazil’s, who got knocked out before us?
We had much better players in 2002, 2006 and probably 1998. And never got beyond the QF.
I never said we did “brilliantly”. But I think there is cause to be quietly satisfied with our overall performance in the tournament. Yes, it is disappointing that we lost tonight and we didn’t play well in the second half (though I do not accept that we were “appalling”). So yes - it is a missed opportunity. But that’s all it is. It is a young, inexperienced team, and there is no reason to assume that it won’t continue to challenge if carrying on in this vein
Frankly, if you have seen as much England failure as I have, this is nothing.
Seen some claiming the first Croatia goal could have been a foul for a high foot?
Fair call or just clutching at straws?