Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by cyaninternetdog, Oct 31, 2020.
Recruitment seems muuuuuuuch better since everyone's favourite whipping boy left the club.
Adam Leventhal has come up trumps today. Full "exclusive" interview on The Athletic.
Really good to get Giraldi's take on things.
Filippo Giraldi interview • Pozzo disagreement/respect • Scapegoat • How/why coaches hired/fired • Javi sacking/reappointing QSF • Giaretta ‘message’ • Striker situation inc Gray ‘anger’ • Captain Hughes
He didn't like being made a scapegoat by the fans.
“I’ve learned about how much they (fans) care about this club and they love their team no matter what. But with someone who just wants to throw you under the bus to have fun, it doesn’t matter.”
He says he felt his relationship with the club broke after the FA Cup final and he should have left at that time. He didn't agree with the sacking of Gracia and felt he should have been given one more game. Also he was not in favour of hiring QSF.
He admits that they should communicate more. “We should’ve communicated more, I agree,”
This bit confirmed he was too interfering, but he seems totally fine with it. The bit in bold highlights the problem for me.
Giraldi says he would also watch training “to have my own opinion”. He was keen to have an open and honest relationship with whoever happened to be in charge. “I think I can solve most of the problems. Sometimes there are things I don’t like that I discuss with the owner, with Scott and with the coach first. Because that’s the way it should work. You have to report to an owner if there’s something that is not correct.”
He denies anything untoward happened at half time in the West Ham match, just a chat and to try to get the team more motivated for the second half.
He contradicts himself over Dawson.
There was a crusade against Craig Dawson that I think was completely unfair,” says Giraldi. “I don’t like it when criticism goes into one single player. I did that signing, OK.
“We asked him to start playing from the back, coming out with the ball. For the first three or four months, it was more difficult for him because he wasn’t used to it.
Sounds like it basically went to pot after the Cup final !
Some good insight from him. Fronts up to some things but also seems to deflect quite a bit. Don't find that he doesn't say much that we all didn't safely assume anyway though.
Biggest concern from it is that whilst he doesn't agree that its micro-management, it's pretty clear they interfere with the coaches at the training ground as we've all expected happens.
£30m for Estupinan and Suarez?
Can our medical team not watch training for injuries or the fitness team watch the players for their GPS scores during a game rather than men in suits ?
Sure they mean well doing what they think is right but that is a lot of interfering .
I agree. Giraldi thinks it's being supportive, but it certainly could be seen as micro-managing.
There has to be a certain level of trust. If you appoint a coach, then trust him to do the job. If things start going wrong, then you can maybe take a look as to what is going on at that point, or just have the occasional catch up at sessions just to keep your finger on the pulse. But it sounds like he's there every minute of every day, then goes squealy to the owner if he doesn't like something. That's certainly not a healthy environment to work in.
Ok, you can say all coaches have to have thick skins and it shouldn't matter if the boss is watching, but it does effect you. No one likes to work with a critical eye on you at all times. This may explain why things constantly go wrong. Things are not allowed to organically grow. Far too much prodding and poking. Just let the head coach get on with it. If he screws up then fire him. But if you let him do his job unencumbered, it may produce a better longer term result.
Indeed and they could have overhauled this system when Giraldi left but instead just got another Giraldi.
I never get this in football - will one more game really change views that much? If you're thinking of sacking someone but decide to give them 1 more game, even if they win they'll forever be close to the sack, probably better for everyone if you just do it then rather than imposing a deadline.
Agreed in general but I felt that we'd improved in the Newcastle game where we drew after the opening three defeats. And our fringe players had played well in a League Cup game. I thought it showed enough signs that Javi could turn it around (although in fairness, the next three games were Arsenal, Man City and Wolves so he probably would've got the chop anyway!).
Sounds a lot like the place I work. Less qualified management on less money telling the qualified employees with years of experience what to do.
Doesn’t work where I am and inevitably management doesn’t last long.
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Interesting article although highlights what we already know: everything went wrong after the Cup Final.
There is an alternate universe where Pereyra scored that one-on-one at 0-0 and an incredible rearguard display, led by Mariappa. improbably kept City at bay as we hang on to win the Cup.
Gracia, Pereyra, Mariappa, Deulofeu elevated to full blown legend status, we go into next season on a high and finish fifth and qualify for Europe after some shrewd summer additions (tempted by the prospect of signing for the Cup Winners). This starts a dynasty as we are established as a regular top 8 team. Gracia retires a hero and is replaced by exciting, upcoming coach Almen Abdi who in his first season leads Watford to a romping title win (closest challengers Man City 8 points adrift).
The alternate version of me is loving this sequence of events and I am happy for him.
Actually what is Abdi doing these days....think he would be a great coach
If movies have taught me anything, it's that you should be investing all you own in discovering a portal so you can lure him through, murder him and take his place in this alternate universe.
I agree, but he should go to a decent club.
Fascinating interview with Fabrizio Romano available here: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1375469488204881924?s=19
Talks about how we wanted to sell 2 'older' strikers this summer but the offers weren't right. Confirms an agreement was in place with Everton for Doucoure in 2019 for double what we sold him for last year, but we didn't go through with it as there wasn't enough time for a replacement.
Also, Sarr was extremely close to going to United in the summer.
Wonder how much of it is true.
Took a hit on Docoure I guess if so.
Suppose Sarr might have gone if we'd had to sell him.
What were the offers? Even if they were free transfers we should have accepted - certainly for TD at least.
That must mean the offers weren’t right for the players, which makes sense considering their eye watering wages. If it isn’t that then someone at the club needs shooting.
Maybe Welbeck was another .
But then getting some money for him would have been better than just paying him off?
Of course we ended up getting an even older striker !
Also said we had an offer for JP in the summer which is interesting
Hmm I would say after the Semi Final.?
The Doucoure thing doesn’t bother me, hindsight is 20/20 and all that. We’ll always be a selling club, but it’s good that we’re not exclusively a selling club and don’t always take a profit if its there. The exact same happened with Iggy and we could’ve made a lot more from China initially. As a fan I think you’d alway rather we sell a player for less over immediately selling our best players if a profit is on the table.
I seem to remember that the overall mood on these boards at turning down the Ighalo/Doucoure offers was jubilant. As a whole, the vast majority were glad to be keeping them and that we were no longer in a position to have to sell at the first sign of an offer.
In hindsight, of course, selling Doucoure and reinvesting that money would probably have been a better move, but I don't think anyone could have predicted his form would drop as significantly as it did.
Rightly or wrongly, hindsight is how the owners/decision makers will be judged. Everything is hindsight after the event. You have to make the correct decisions at the right time. Hindsight will prove you were either right or wrong, however harsh that may sound.
If you're any good, then hindsight will prove you to be an excellent judge of a situation. Alternatively, if you're judgement is off, then hindsight will prove that also. Right now, I think it's safe to say the vast majority of decision making at the club over the past couple of years has been off.
The thing is, we don't factor profit into our judgement.
Many of us were delighted that pererya and Doucoure weren't sold after the cup final, but if they had been, we could have reinvested and probably been better as a team, plus had a few million left over to pay some debt.
The club seemed to believe their own 'best of the rest' spiel and felt we were too big to sell our assets anymore.
It was a hubristic mistake and Nemesis has punished us accordingly.
If we do make it back it'll be interesting to see if mistakes have been learned from. I was pleased we kept hold of Doucoure, but looking back I wish we'd have sold him earlier. Not for the extra money, but keeping players who don't want to be here never ends well. Making promises of 'one more season then we will sell you' is never likely to end well. Players will naturally lose focus and want to avoid injury. Doucoure knew he had that Everton move coming and Capoue was a negative influence - and they were the mainstays of our midfield.
Be very interesting to see how this forum reacts if one of our players (let's say Zinckernagel as he's already approaching his prime) has a good season in the Prem
It'll be despite our scouts, not because of them.
If we do go up we’ll be relegated. Not a case of learning from our mistakes, our budget will be one of, if not the lowest in the league. However might mean we can sort out our financial issues.
Yes I think so. The wise move given the current state of affairs is to do a Norwich and hope for a bit of a miracle. Otherwise come back down in more robust health.
This is pretty much it isn’t it? Graham Taylor never wanted to keep players who didn’t want to be here. It’s a fine line but the club and players should be honest with each other. If the players heart isn’t in it then even the best players form will suffer.
More often than not a harmonious team will do better than one with even just one or two wantaways.
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My understanding and perception of what happened with Doucoure was that he signed a new deal on the basis we wouldn’t stand in his way of a big club came in for him, like a top 6 club. It was then down to him to earn that move and perform on the pitch but he didn’t. I don’t think you can really blame the owners for that. I think in hindsight we can all see Everton we’re probably just offering more than he was worth and was never going to kick on to the level of a true top 6 team, but it certainly seemed plausible at the time.
It wasn’t implausible that we retained a player who played like he wanted to play for a top side (and thus directly benefited from this on the pitch) for a couple more seasons, and still then picked up a big transfer fee at the end of it.
Still at PSG, mate.