FA make £80,000 payment to Eni Aluko after bullying complaint

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by hornmeister, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
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  2. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Bizarre. If the FA feel it warrants an 80k payoff why on earth haven't they sacked the employee?
     
  3. J.B

    J.B First Team

  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    No wonder she wasn't exactly supportive of the England manager at the Euros as in her role on Channel 4!
     
  5. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    This is where Sansom made the "racist comment".

    “We were in the hotel. Everybody was excited. It was a big game. On the wall, there was a list of the family and friends who were coming to watch us and I just happened to be next to Mark. He asked me if I had anyone who would be there and I said I had family coming over from Nigeria. ‘Oh,’ he said. ‘Nigeria? Make sure they don’t bring Ebola with them.’


    It isn't a racist comment at all, it was a crass attempt at a joke.
     
  6. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Unbelievable really that she be given a role as pundit in the circumstances, could hardly be objective.
     
  7. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    More to the point she wasn't very good.

    If there's a serious issue of discrimination here, then it needs to be sorted. There has already been one investigation if that was a cover up then that needs to be sorted.

    If Aluko was paid £80K to keep quiet she needs to pay that back otherwise she is an accessory to any issue.
     
  8. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    The crucial question is whether he was making jokes like that to the other women too, or whether this woman was singled out. Considering he comes across as a complete prat, I expect the answer to that is yes. And therefore the only thing he is guilty of is being one of those dreadful "banter" merchants we all know and hate.

    A *** not a racist is this sleuths verdict.
     
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  9. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    If A insults B and A & B are of a different race, then unless the insult is racial or B was singled out for insult because of their race, then it's not racism.

    Too many instances of Ali G type "is it because I'm black?" instances of producing the race card, have dulled public outrage to racism.

    Something smells off about this case. I don't think we have enough information to judge and to be honest I think this sort of thing needs to be kept out of the papers until an independent judgement has been made.
     
  10. Beekayess

    Beekayess Reservist

    Agreed.
     
  11. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player


    A joke underpinned by shocking racism though milord. Surely I don't have to explain why it's racist to imply that African people, including Aluko's family, might be infected with a deadly disease? I've heard a number of these 'jokes' over the years centred around people's race and colour. Always and without exception they're derogatory and insulting. In my view they're simply a slightly more acceptable way of baldly saying "I hate browns".

    Perhaps if Marky Mark had cracked his "funny" to another white man, they would have laughed (despite the lack of anything even slightly amusing in the joke itself) thereby establishing a little racist white-supremacist bond between them and the acknowledgement that both feel the same way about those disease-infected, badly educated, inferior foreigners.

    Her getting dropped from the England team within a week of lodging the complaint, after 102 caps and whilst in good form, on the grounds that she "lacked the Lioness spirit" is obviously meant as a punishment for her and a warning to others who might be thinking of speaking out about racist crap like this.

    For me it shows that racism and racist attitudes in Britain are still as strong and healthy and vibrant as ever they were.
     
  12. J.B

    J.B First Team

    It's a massively racist comment ffs
     
  13. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Ok putting mod hat on here.

    Can I please ask everyone to be extra careful about what is written in this thread as this is/likely to go legal.

    There's been a few assumptions and accusations made based on 2nd & 3rd hand reports. Bordering on libel. I'll need to tidy the thread up a little so apologies if you have a post which vanishes it's for the good of the forum.
     
  14. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    The Uk, and just about every other country, placed heavy restrictions on any longer locals coming from the infected areas during the Ebola outbreak. The fact was, almost all of them were probably black. Does that make all the health authorities racist? If course it doesn't, as the issue is the Ebola, not the race of those unfortunately affected.

    If my family had been working over there during the outbreak and were coming back to the UK, I would have expected a similar comment or joke.

    Honestly, some people are just so soft and precious. They need to grow up a bit.

    But of course, if that comment was just part of the story, then that is different.
     
  15. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    I think we can all agree he sounds like an arse or he's just not good in social situations, gets nervous and says stupid things. If that's the case then management is not the role for him.
     
  16. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    I'm not certain you quite get the concept of racism ZZ.

    Have your family ever been abused for the colour of their skin in their life?
    Have you ever overheard football fans shout 'ebola' at white people at a football match?

    You are correct that if he said that to a white person it wouldn't be racist, but he said it to a black person and whether it was intentional or not, it is as racist as those fans who shout 'ebola' at black players during football games.
     
  17. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I think that is yourself that is mistaken.

    Firstly, I have been called out for the colour of my skin many times, in the Far East, South America and Middle East, and many times in London. But I would imagine my interpretation of "abuse", would be different from yours. I don't really understand the point of the question.

    But to your main point, the bloke was not indiscriminately shouting across a football pitch to black players, he was talking to a member of his group standing next to him at a social event whose family were coming over from a country that, as he was speaking, was in the middle of an outbreak of ebola. If the outbreak had been in Australia, and the family were coming from there, it wouldn't have been classed as a racist comment any more than, when ordering a steak in Scandinavian restaurant was asked whether it "was inconvenient to have to come all the way to Sweden to get some decent beef and as the UK was riddled with mad cow disease."

    Yes, it was a poor effort at a joke from Sansome but it was not racist comment.

    But as I have said on these forums before, the real issue surrounding racism, is the prejudice, the discrimination and the hatred. In my view, trying to lump a jokey comment in with the real serious issues of racism does the cause no good whatsoever, and probably does more harm. In my view every race and colour deserves to be treated equally, but that should not mean that any reference to our differences should be banned from discussion, or from jokey comments. To do so creates resentment and disharmony. Our differences in culture should be celebrated, not suppressed.

    If we remain tolerant of discussion around race and religion (and the jokey comments) then the process of integration would be more real, natural and ultimately, more sustainable - in my opinion.
     
  18. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    Thanks for the reply. However, it confirms that you don't understand racism.

    Again I understand what you posted, and I don't like a lot of the political correctness and I agree with what you said about celebrating our differences.

    However, Eni Aluko has probably and her family have probably had to suffer abuse and racism all of their lives and being called Ebola is probably something which has been shouted at her at some point. It is different from someone talking about mad cow disease or whatever to a white English person because they have not suffered abuse.

    I know you will probably disagree with me but think of it this way. I'm a teacher - A child sees that Sansome has got away with his comments and his parents tell him it was only a joke anyway. The next day he calls a black child Ebola as form of abuse. What do I say to that child?
     
  19. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Whether or not someone has had a hard time, or been racially discriminated against before, is not the issue. If she had, then it would explain why Aluko might have felt the comment was racist, but it has little to do wether Samsome meant it as a racist comment, although it was potentially insensitive and a poor joke.

    The only reason the comment may have been known to the kids in your class, is because Aluko publicised it, not because he said it. It was said privately, under very specific circumstances, in that her family was travelling over from an ebola ravaged country. So, in answer to your question, you could say this to the boy....

    "If someone makes joke based on factual circumstances and relating to where someone comes from and doesn't intend to upset anyone then it isn't necessarily racist as the intentions were good, but if someone abuses someone purely because their race, intending to upset them, then it is racist and is almost certainly inappropriate - and if you say something like that then you are a very naughty boy!"
     
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  20. RunkleHorn

    RunkleHorn Academy Graduate

    Nigeria has a population of 186 million and has had 8 deaths from Ebola, and 0 cases since the beginning of 2015. Less have died from Ebola than from vending machines in the same period. Please explain how Nigeria is 'ravaged' by Ebola.

    The comment was infantile, racist, and he deserves to go.
     
  21. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    Like I posted, you clearly have no idea about racism. It's obviously no point debating with you as you fail to empathise or see anyone else's point of view.
     
  22. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Please I would like to know more about the abuse you got in South America for the colour of your skin. Could you tell us the details of the incidents that occurred because I never ever had that and can't imagine the circumstances in which it would happen?

    Presumably the abuse occurred during the working trip to the port town in Venezuela you told us about.
     
  23. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I think you need to read my post again. I didn't say I was abused racially.

    But, it was several times that I was "called out" due to my race, in Recife, Rio and in El Palito, I think. The details are unimportant. But I didn't class it as abuse, and even if I did, it certainly wouldn't have caused me to go into the sort of shock and spiral of despair described by so many other victims of a racist comment.

    The only time I ever got slightly frustrated by racial discrimination was in Japan, where instead of racial jokes/banter/name calling etc, as whites, or rather non Japanese, were banned from certain hotels, bars and shops. Not that I am equating that sort of discrimination with that experienced elsewhere, but it was a bit frustrating.

    You really shouldn't be surprised Clive, racism, racist comments, discrimination and prejudice happen in all directions, you probably just don't notice it.
     
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  24. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Ok, a bad choice of words, but it was hit by ebola and only very tough sanctions, such as restricting movement from seriously affected countries prevented it getting worse. Was Nigeria being racist?
     
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  25. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    That's a shame, I thought I put my points over quite politely and answered your question sensibly (apart from the last six words).

    I showed empathy, as I explained how I understood how Aluko may have found the comment racist but I disagree that, on it's own the comment was the bloke being racist.

    I havn't responded in kind to your little digs at me, just sticking to the issue.

    I thought we were debating, unless of course your idea of a debate is when someone caves in and agrees with everything you said. In which case I understand why you have given up.
     
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  26. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    OK ZZ, I'll try again.

    Firstly, there was no intent to have little digs at you but if that's what you read then I apologise.

    Secondly, I'll try to explain why you don't seem to understand racism. Racism needs power. In this country white, English people have power. Therefore, if an Asian person says something derogatory about my skin colour then it is not racist because there is no threat behind it - no one has ever insulted my skin colour before, I have never been stopped by the police due to my skin colour, I have never felt unwelcome due to my skin colour and never felt in fear due to my skin colour. The reason I mention this is because you give examples of your experiences being abused due to the colour of your skin. Unless there was threat or power behind that abuse, it is not racist, just insulting. (Apart from in Japan - when did you travel there by the way - 1947?)

    Thirdly, Samsome is a football man, who surely knows the abuse black players have suffered. He surely knows that shouting Ebola at black players is now used as an insult from racists in football grounds. Ignorance is no excuse in law, so even if he meant as a joke, he should have known better.

    Fourthly, stating something was supposed to funny is not an excuse. Some of the sitcoms from the 1970 s made life worse for black and Asian people in this country due to their racism. They gave more power to racists and excuses for further abuse - this was the point I was trying to make about children at schools.

    Fifthly, do you really believe that this was the only thing Samsome had said to Aluko? Do you really think that from this one comment she complained. When I saw her being interviewed she mentioned the constant bullying which also made me think that the comment about Ebola was not thoughtless but calculated. At school I have the pleasure of seeing bullying first hand, and I can assure you that this sort of comment is used on purpose. When the bully stands in front of and I call him a 'naughty boy', his cocky reply is inevitably 'It was only a joke', which is repeated by their parents when they come in to see me, indignant that their darling son is in trouble because of a joke, without acknowledging the bullying that happened before the 'joke'.

    Finally, I apologise for all the firstly, secondly etc. but it seemed the best way to set this out.
     
  27. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I still dont get why you think that you have a greater understanding of racism, than I do. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with anything you say in the paragraph on racis
    I am confused with your interpretation of racism. I dont agree with you that if a comment is not accompanied by a threat or power that it can't be racist. And I am not even sure that you are completely clear on it either, as why (if you are right) would a shout at a footballer of "ebola" from a football crowd be racist? Why, if you are right, would a jokey comment be racist? In neither circumstances is there a threat or power involved, yet you think they are racist. What about comments made to an anonymous person through social media, is that also absolved of potentially being racist?

    Personally, I think it is easily possible to make a racist comment without threats and power.

    Answering your question, I have been to Japan many times. The example I mentioned was around 1980.

    Samson apparently made the comment in 2014, the first year of the ebola outbreak. It went on for another 2 years, so I am not at all sure that Samson knew that it was being used as racist abuse at that time, are you? was it routinely being shouted out when the Donacster Belles played Sheffield ladies in the local derby? But, if he did know it, then as I have already said it was a joke in very poor taste, but it doesn't make it racist.

    I understand the issue you were trying to raise with the reference to a child. But I have already explained how I think it should be handled - with a rational explanation of why one sort of comment is racist, and another, isn't. Children have to handle the complexities of growing up and this is no different than a child listening to a teacher talking about healthy eating and exercise, when either he himself or others in the class are obese. Shying away, or effectively banning discussions on difficult issues, does not help in the long run, even if it is easier for the teacher at the time.

    I think the final larger paragraph was a bit alarming. I have said a couple of times that the comment was, in my view not racist on it's own. So you counter that by accusing him of far more than just that one comment. Even though Aluko, as far as I know, has not accused Sampson of other racist remarks, or the bullying that you mention (and she has had plenty of opportunity), you have come to the conclusion that he did make them. Is that you being fair minded, tolerant and balanced? I don't think so.
     
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  28. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    From what I remember when I saw her being interviewed, she did mention previous bullying, though I'm not certain.

    Maybe I didn't explain myself very well, but I'm sure you could read more about racism if you wanted to.
     
  29. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I don't think I need to, but I will always take an interest.
     
  30. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    You say the details are unimportant, but they are important to me. They are what I was wanting to know. The reason is because I am unsure of what it is to be "called out" due to one's race. How does this calling out take place?

    The only thing I can think of in my travels where my colour has come into it is when I've had to wait outside the rum shop while my local friends go in to buy it, because if I am there they think I am a tourist and the price doubles. It's a sort of racism I suppose and it does admittedly pish me off mightily. I've often pointed out how they'd feel if the situation was reversed in England and they had to wait round the corner. But what can they do? It's a fact of life there in developing countries where tourists are walking around spending a month's local wages on a meal for two.
     
  31. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    The details are as unimportant now as I found them back then - I doubt if I actually remember the details of some occasions. I mention them only because someone asked. When working overseas I never did stick to the tourist haunts, and was often shouted at by groups of (usually young adults) just having a go or attempting to intimidate me as I walked through the local communities. It happened all the time, it is not a big deal. I was different from them and I accepted recognition of that, as a relatively trivial matter. Then there were occasions when, as their boss, I was cursed, referencing the fact that I was white or English by employees probably fed up with being told what to do. Also trivial, I was a white man amongst local bosses, and half expected it. It nearly all general low-level "picking on" me due to me being different.

    When replying to the enquiring post, I hadn't even considered the many times that I have been "victim" of jokes referring to my nationality and colour whilst working and socialising with non British people. Just last week in Greece, it was pointed out by a local that the Germans only get the sunbeds because the British were all still sleeping off their hangovers from the night before and the Russians are content to come along afterwards and tip the German off the sunbed. I enjoy all that stuff.

    I am quite happy to relegate the details of these type of events to the back of my mind, as they pale into insignificance amongst the wonderful manner I have been treated in 99% of the social situations I have found myself in overseas. I love travel and I accept that I am often different to to the people I mix with and accept what often comes along.

    More serious was when I and a couple of colleagues were jumped on by a group knife wielding men when we were swimming in the sea near Jakarta amongst locals who came to our aid - that was a bit worrying, and I was jostled quite physically by some young people in Recife who obviously thought it would be fun to pick on the white man in a black area.

    But Clive, if you think that racism only occurs in one direction by whites, then it is you being racist. It is happening everywhere. But you only need to take a look in a Leicester factory of an South Asian owned business where often you would not find a single white person amongst hundreds of employees, to see that.

    We should not be worrying about all the low level stuff. We should concentrate on the discrimination and hatred that is so obvious in some situations. If we did that, the low level stuff will naturally die out as unfashionable.
     
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  32. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    Sorry to butt in ZZ and Clive. This is exactly the problem I have with your opinion ZZ and what I meant by your lack of empathy. Just because you are not bothered by people saying what you perceive to be minor things about your race or skin colour, you presume everyone should feel the same. In this you do not account for hundreds of year of imperialism, slavery and horrific racial abuse many people have suffered under white rule.

    As for ignoring the low level stuff - in an ideal world yes, but it wasn't until the low level stuff was dealt with in this country through organisations like Kick it Out, that racism began to seemingly disappear. Now it seems to rearing its ugly head again as many of the schools in the area I teach in are reporting more instances of racism.
     
  33. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I think you are being presumptious AN. I don't think that at all. However, white rule has not heen a factor for generations, Maybe the resentment and bitterness should be reducing by now, as it can't be healthy. Certainly, I don't think that Aluko's thinking of slavery when she came over here to live, nor was she considering it when complaining about sansome. People move on better than you give them credit for.

    Besides, have the poles been enslaved by the whites?
     
  34. Beekayess

    Beekayess Reservist

  35. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I was wondering about your reaction to what I said in the last paragraph of #28, when I said that, by making assumptions about Sampson without any further accusations about him personally doesn't really show you in good light.

    Would you agree, is that you being tolerant, open and fair minded?
     
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