Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by hornmeister, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Also as Andrew Benson writes:

    "It was not so much that he fought through the field from 14th to fifth in just 14 laps; the speed advantage the top teams have over the rest of the field has made this relatively commonplace when a Mercedes or Ferrari driver is in that sort of position.

    It was that he did so while still keeping his tyres in good enough shape that he was not only able to do a 42-lap opening stint on the soft tyre - his old rival Fernando Alonso in the McLaren managed just 31 - but was still able bang in competitive lap times throughout."
    Jossy likes this.
  2. Hmm not really no. He drove for Lotus, Williams, Maclaren, and Ferrari, all top teams then.
  3. Meh!

    Meh! Pre-Dictator

    No. Not really! He could support Watford and be less of an idiot I guess.

    I'd be the same if it was another driver too, so I'm not singling him out especially.

    It's just the whole farce that is F1 that annoys me.

    This season started quite exciting but now it's just degenerating back in to the usual.
  4. Meh!

    Meh! Pre-Dictator

    Weren't there 2 different classes back in the late 80s? Different engines and power so essentially an a and a b race in 1. But the b cars were still mildly competitive.
  5. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    So you repeatedly mention the Ferrari being a slightly better car and therefore that Hamilton winning is impressive, yet when he's had the better car the last god-knows how many seasons you've still gone on about how impressive it is that he wins.

    What you're essentially saying is that there is nothing Hamilton can do that wouldn't impress you. Love conquers all.
  6. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    That’s because fastest car or not, he generally wins/ over performs.

    Why mention the times he’s had the fastest car and often won, when I can also mention times when he hasn’t had the fastest car and still won/ performed miracles?

    Being a multi-Championship winning driver is one reason why I think he’s very talented, but I think his wet-driving, his outcompeting of teammates and his performances in qualifying - fastest car or not - are more impressive.

    I certainly disagree that you can’t impress with the fastest car. If the Mercedes is a second faster than Ferrari, but Hamilton pushes that to a second and a half in Q3, that is just as impressive as having a car a second slower than the Ferrari and only being half a second behind in Q3. It’s about pushing the limit of what is seen as possible, and Hamilton does that more frequently than anyone else in F1.

    If Vettel was a second and a half faster than Hamilton in the rain (on non-wet tyres), I'd certainly not be impressed by him.
    Jossy, UEA_Hornet and Diamond like this.
  7. Silverstone, 2008, in the wet. His pace in appalling conditions was brutal. If I recall he lapped everyone. Greatest drive of all time.
  8. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    His wet driving amongst the current bunch of drivers is without question the most impressive, although that at the weekend wasn't much of a wet race. His outcompeting is because (other than Alonso) he's always been clearly assigned the no.1 driver slot, he even managed to screw that up against Rosberg. Mercedes don't hire a second driver they expect to beat him, imagine the drama he'd cause!

    You can impress with the fastest car, to an extent. The issue is how can you prove it's the driver and not the car? You say 'if the Mercedes is a second faster than Ferrari, but Hamilton pushes that to a second and a half', how do you know it's a second faster? How do you know Vettel or Raikonnen, or even Sainz, wouldn't get 2 seconds out of it? You don't, it's all assumption. Does Hamilton push the limit of what's possible, or do Mercedes?

    When you're always in the fastest, or nearly fastest, car it's difficult to say where the dominance comes from. Combine that with his appalling attitude, his sulking and his cringeworthy publicity attempts and I fail to be impressed by most of what he does. I think it's telling that a large amount of people in the motor-racing industry dislike him.
  9. There is a myth he has always had the best cars and that isn't true.

    The 2010, 11, and 12 Mclarens ranged from poor to total dog mess, yet he still managed to win races in them. He's the only driver to ever win a race in every season he has competed.

    He has a huge race going fan base, if you ever go to Silverstone the place is packed to the rafters with Hamilton fans. But the general public have never taken to him, it's one of the few sports we have a world class competitor representing GB and it's a shame we don't celebrate it. He is no more a prima donna than any other driver (or sportsperson) yet gets no slack.
  10. Yes late 80s there was a choice, smalller turbocharged engines or bigger V8 naturally aspirated engines. The turbocharged engine had absolute power advantage but delivered it in a very peaky way, the cars had mad turbolag.

    Mansells was at Williams late 80s which used the turbo engine if memory serves.
  11. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Never understood the hatred towards Lewis. Unlike every other driver on the grid (and pretty much ever in F1 history) - he came from a poor family, brought up on a council estate in Stevenage where his dad took three jobs to fund his carting career before he impressed Ron Dennis to be signed up by the young driver programme at Mclaren. No sugar daddy bankrolling his progress. He's also the only black man in the whitest of white sports, and whilst rising through the ranks endured a lot of hostility because of that.

    A lot of the negativity from within F1 regarding Hamilton originates from Jackie Stewart, who's had it in for him ever since he rejected signing up to the GPDA. Stewart's bitterness has increased tenfold since Hamilton surpassed him as Britain's most successful driver, calling him a little ballerina. I'd call Stewart a whinging, no-longer-relevant Jock who's had his day and should be proud to just reflect on his own success, rather than **** on somebody else's.

    You don't have to like him - but to hate on him because he chooses to live his life in a flashy way makes no sense to me. If I'd risen through the adversity he did to become the best driver on the grid, I'd show off a lot more than he does. He delivers on track, constantly.

    And as stated above - you only need to be at Silverstone for the British GP to see how well liked he really is amongst true racing fans. I've had the pleasure once, and his popularity is unsurpassed. I think the modern slang is something like 'haters gonna hate' regardless.
  12. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    Two quick points: Firstly, why are you implying we should like him because he's black and from a poor background? Really? That makes no difference to whether we should like him.

    Second, the 'true' racing fans line (I assume an attempt at a dig) is quite funny. I have never been to an F1 race, so you've got me there... I have been to F1 testing though, which I'd assume is more likely to be true racing fans? I've also been to lord knows how many lower level races, Britcar, British GT, BTCC, BSB, MotoGP etc and most of the major circuits in England. I've also been on the pit wall at the Silverstone 24hr and spoken to plenty of racer's parents whilst their kids are out on the track. I've got friends who work for Red Bull Racing and Mercedes, as well as doing work for successful endurance racing drivers who live local to MK. The only ones who say anything nice about Lewis are the ones who work for Mercedes - I guess it's kind of their job!

    Just because someone doesn't like Hamilton doesn't mean they're not a racing fan.
    Meh! likes this.
  13. Meh!

    Meh! Pre-Dictator

    Could at least smile once in a while then. He's in the same category as miserable Murray.

    Ok you don't have to be the class bloody clown but at least be marginally cheerful.

    Just comes across as a complete ****.
  14. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I thought if anything Hamilton for some might be too opinionated and very happy to flout himself on social media etc...

    Whereas Murray generally is a very private person - his mother makes us for it!
  15. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Wasn't aimed at you personally, scummybear - it was a general riposte to the amount of irrational hate that comes his way from many forums/message boards/press articles with a hidden undertone (Jonathan McEvoy).

    I agree you don't have to like him because of his background. The reason I brought it up is because he's stated himself he's always felt like an outsider in the sport as his journey to get to F1 has been different to virtually everybody else's regarding finance and race. Whilst most others have had their journeys made a lot more comfortable/easier, it just seems bizarre to me that people like to criticise Hamilton because he now lives a somewhat 'flashy' life after struggling to get to the position he now enjoys.

    I certainly don't doubt your racing fan credentials from that list. Again - so much criticism comes his way from people that have never been to any kind of racing event ever, and never will. It just doesn't make sense to me.

    Personal opinion - I think F1 will be poorer once he calls it a day.

    Slightly off topic - have you ever been to a Hillclimb event? Years back when I was trying to get in to photography, a connected relative blagged me a photographers pass for the Longleat Hillclimb. Nothing ever came of it, but it was a great experience photographing all classes of racing cars tearing up the hill from within the confines of the track.
    miked2006 likes this.
  16. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    Perhaps you have a point with his background, if he always feels like an outsider then it might explain his attitude. Although I'd expect things such as talking about Ferrari's 'interesting tactics' and nonstop complaining when he's not winning are more likely to ostracise him than his background.

    Of course a lot of his criticism is from people who haven't been to any type of racing, but so is a lot of the praise. To be honest I struggle to praise anyone in F1 at the moment, as for me there is very little racing - Max has his moments, but he also shows his lack of experience a lot. In fact I'd say one of the main reasons I criticise him is because of the fanboy element of his followers, it's like when plucky Bournemouth got promoted and could do no wrong - they all overlooked the fact they had by far the highest wage bill in the league, funded by a billionaire owner.

    I've not been to hillclimb, I've only seen it a couple of times on tv - the speeds they get up to on such a narrow strip is insane though! You've got to be slightly unstable to even enter, I think. I'd love to try pro motorsport photography, I always take my camera but have nothing like the lenses required to take anything impressive. I think some of my F1 pics are on this thread actually (Link). I'd recommend Speedway or BTCC is you want a comparatively cheap day with plenty of action
    Jossy likes this.
  17. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Excellent pictures applause-1.gif

    Mine from the Hillclimb were taken on 35mm film, no digital cameras then! I had a half decent lens, but being so close to the action negated its shortcomings and enabled me to get some good pics (and a lot of terrible ones). They were all boxed away and left at my mum's, but she's moved house twice since then so it'll be fortunate if they've not been binned. After it became apparent nothing was going to come of it, I lost interest in the pics and wasn't that bothered about where they were. Of course, I regret it now:(.

    As for the Hungarian GP - not expecting a classic. Minimal overtaking due to the track layout, and a battle between Ferrari and RedBull for the win. Unless it rains..........!
  18. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor


    I'm not that much a fan of his flashiness/ tax dodging. But he definitely has had to graft to get to where he is - more so than 99% of other F1 drivers - and so I still respect him, just about. At least he gives us a glimpse of his personality.

    I love his driving style though. Another brilliant performance today in the wet.
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 and Jossy like this.
  19. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Ricciardo to leave RB at the end of the year and join Renault.

    Interesting move by a talented driver: I thought RB were ditching Renault due to their poor engine? They must have promised him huge investment.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  20. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Bold move isn't it - a risk but clearly he feels they will be the next team to compete on the top table.
  21. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Surprising. But I guess he fancies himself as being the main man in a team rather than playing second fiddle to Mad Max.
  22. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Perhaps Danny Ricc has finally had enough of this Trevor Senior look-a-likes constant whinging............

    cyaninternetdog likes this.
  23. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    Maybe he doesn't fancy the prospect of a Honda engine next season. Whilst the Renault has had a poor run of reliability it's far above Honda's most recent offerings!

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
  24. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Something that might interest some of you - French channel Canal+Sport upload 30min highlight videos to their YouTube channel of on board views from each race. These on boards contain much more than what's broadcast by Sky/Channel 4. Probably not everyone's cup of tea, but I find them interesting and you may do, to. Here's a few of them, although there's more on their channel:



  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Alonso to retire from F1 although some might say that has been coming for quite some time.

    Presume he will now concentrate on other forms of Motorsport which he has shown a desire to take part in.

    One of the best in his prime and still able to get a result or two in an awful car nowdays.
  26. Alonso is joining IndyCar to go for the triple crown I read; already has Monaco GP and Le Mans in his pocket, needs an Indy 500 win

    Only ever been achieved by 1 driver -Graham Hill
    scummybear likes this.
  27. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    If you've not seen it, you might be interested in this excellent documentary on Graham Hill. Ten years old now but still great:
  28. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    Yep, that seems to be the word going around. He tried the one-off race, but oval racing isn't quite as simple as people think - I think a couple of seasons and a bit of luck will see him win the Indy 500. Juan Pablo Montoya and Takuma Sato have both won it.

    It's a shame Alonso won't be in the IndyCar final round this season, as I already have tickets!
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  29. I've never had opportunity to see IndyCar oval racing live, its on my bucket list
  30. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  31. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  32. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    It's not actually F1 related, but as mentioned before I went to the final round of IndyCar in California a couple of weeks ago. I'd definitely recommend going if you're into motorsport, although I might try an oval next time. Where we get a red arrows fly past, out there you get a full 25 minute air show! I've attached some photos if anyone is interested:






    Diamond and Jossy like this.
  33. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Just a case of when , not if for Hamilton now.

    Ferrari have imploded somewhat.
  34. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    It is clear Hamilton is just the best driver at the moment. Ferrari have been up up with Mercedes for most of this season, and apparently were ahead on pace just 3 weeks ago. But Vettel, 4 times World Champ, just cannot handle the pressure as well as Hamilton, is not as good as picking his opportunities to get past others, makes too many mistakes and is basically not as quick as Hamilton.

    Sad to see McLaren at the bottom of the pile right now.
    wfc4ever and UEA_Hornet like this.
  35. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    I'd have to agree (well, of the drivers in a competitive car - it's hard to judge the ones who have no chance!), Vettel seems to have lost his patience and feels he has to charge through at any opportunity. Perhaps he doesn't trust his tacticians to get him ahead of his rivals, so rather than biding his time and passing at a comfortable place/in the pits he tries to rush things. Ferrari have given up, they didn't even bother switching their drivers!

    That said, Hamilton is still a moron. Just a fast moron.

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