While I agree with your point broadly, I also agree with HB1. It equally says as much about the clubs inability to convince players of the realigned project, or the fact that we sign the wrong type of characters in the first place.
Yeah true, hadn’t come considered his wages so it’s probably swings and roundabouts either way. Of course a fee and getting his wages off the books would still be preferable though.
Quite. But as I suggested last night, I doubt this deal is being driven by the transfer fee really. The freed up wages will be the bigger factor and doing it on good terms with the player.
Absolutely and he’s a player I’d like to stay. But if the decision is we can’t support his wages and Valencia are potless the loan might be the only available option.
I've had a look around and the good news is Derby have a youngster called Jayden Mitchell-Lawson currently on loan at Bristol Rovers who should be a shoe-in for us in League 1 next season.
. We disagree but that's ok. I still think it looks very very weak, mid-table at best. I think you are thinking of Chalo when at his best, a couple of great performances from Quina 2 years ago in the mickey mouse cup, and assuming that "all-action" Cleverley will be fit enough to keep up with the pace of the champ over 46 games. To my mind, not a chance we are even seriously competing for promotion, let alone achieving it, if that is our 1st team midfield next season.
Just the COGs coming out with their latest excuses for the bad management at the club. Other clubs get relegated and have a go at promotion with decent signings and retention of important players. Not us. Firesale and Udinese Reserves of the reserves. Just like last season when 'we'll be fine', we'll finish midtable and an immense rewriting of history will take place where the loudest COGs will say they saw it coming and blame it on all those who questioned the hierarchy. A typical season on the forum.
Personally I would be delighted with a midfield of Hughes Chalobah and Quina, if the Capoue tweets are carp then even better.
On a similar note, if we're replacing Dawson with Mawson, we can perhaps replace Capoue with 28 year-old CB Marco Capuano from Serie B side Frosinone.
What it looks like is very difficult operating circumstances for the club with revenues down in all areas. Normally a relegated club could cash in on a player or two to balance the books, but the market is stagnant. In these circumstances most everyone is for sale and if we don’t sell then plenty will leave on loans. The idea of us paying fees for players right now is a wild one if we don’t create a surplus first.
Perish the thought that we are actually trying to sign players that will fit into our new Head Coach’s system. See the wider picture. Don’t view a potential signing in isolation of that player. This isn’t Fantasy Football. We shouldn’t be just plugging holes in the squad. Try to see how any new player might fit into the way we are going to play next season. Is Mawson the best defender we could sign? No, clearly not. Would he be a good fit into the style Ivic wants for us? Quite possibly yes. It’s about building a team for the coming season, not about signing eleven players who individually may look good on Transfer Mrkt or whatever but can’t gel together in the way the Head Coach wants us to play.
The owners have never followed this strategy before so not sure why they would start now. They bought a £30m winger for Gracia who didn’t play wingers. It’s all about signing players who they think they can turn a profit on. That’s it. What the head coach wants is pretty irrelevant, and if he doesn’t like it well there will be a new guy in 3 months anyway.
And the manager doesn't always stay long enough for the players he gets given to fit into any system!
I suspect if an incoming coach wants players to fit a certain style, he’s given the black book of Udinese’s reserves to flick through and see if anyone fits the mould. Outside of that, what you say is true I think.
I understand your comments but for me personally I see Mawson as a massive gamble compared to Gibson.
I understand your point, and if we had different owners I'd agree with it. But this is not Watford do. They may give a new coach a couple of players he recommends, but they rarely show any faith in a coach to actually sign players for his model of playing. If we're buying crap players just because he can play the ball out of defence better than Cathcart, then what happens if they sack Ivic after 10 or 15 games, which is highly likely. It's far better to sign good players in the first place and make them fit. Where Watford have got it so badly wrong, is undervaluing the importance of a defender. They've never seen the resale value. This is why they sign cheap to make do. For them a defender is a loss leader, but reluctantly all teams need defenders so we do have to buy them the service the requirement. Watford do not have the patience. This season is all about getting promoted. Nothing else matters. If we start off badly, Ivic will be gone. We all know it, so it's pointless building a side which is tailored to the way he plays.
I hardly think they’d be signing Mawson with the idea of generating a profit in a season or two. Dear, you’re entitled to your opinion and I’m sorry you felt mine was worthless. I try to stay upbeat and I’d like to think that our owners, technical directors, scouts and Head Coach are all working hard together, singing from the same hymn sheet to build a side next season capable of promotion. Maybe I’m deluded but that’s how I am, that’s my outlook on life. Football is my escape, it’s my fun, it removes me from a world of coronavirus, of our crap Government, of our crap climate etc. Maybe things will just be the same here this season. Maybe nothing has changed. Maybe Ivic will be sacked. Maybe we will just sign players without any apparent logic. Or maybe, just maybe, lessons have actually been learnt and this season will be the start of a new way of the club operating. I love reading everybody on this forum and like all the posters here, but it seems to me lately some are in danger of drowning in a sea of negativity, so consumed by their misery that they are incapable of even considering things from the other viewpoint. Yesterday was another typical day of gloom here. Mawson, Capoue. Even the club’s Twitter feed became a reason for some to feel miserable and negative. It’s almost as if some people’s default setting now is ‘that’s crap, that’s rubbish, that’s bad, that’s a conspiracy, I hate the club, I’m never going again, I don’t care about them any more (but I will just come on the forum twenty times a day to check what’s going on). As I write this morning, we are yet to sell any of our big names. We’ve yet to sign any of these alleged dreadful players. We’ve not kicked a ball in anger, not even a pre- season friendly. I’m saving my negative posts until that actually happens.
Must be like one of those massive wine lists you get in some restaurants. "Defender or something with a bit of bubbles Sir? Bubbles? Okay let's flick to the winger section. Are you after injury prone, or something more on the petulant side?"
This thread is hilarious. The club actively trying to wind up their fans, their source of income in a global pandemic!? One thing I can tell you... The social media team will know marginally more about transfers than any of us. I also find it funny how people are saying we need a complete rebuild/reset and then get angry when these stories come out. I love Capoue, arguably one of my favourite players ever and i'll be gutted if he goes, but we need to start again. I'd love him to stay, but would understand if he left and I think our midfield should be good enough in the championship, especially with some signings.
The proof will be in the pudding when we see the final squad list when the window slams shut. I think many fans accepted that players needed to be sold but erroneously assumed it would their 6 least favourite players rather than 6 players that other teams would want to pay for. I'm sure we will end up with a "decent" champ squad, my 2 main worries are 1/ a slow start due to limited break, new manager and uncertainty over players that will be available, and 2/administration in 2-3 years if we don't get promoted. Recent 10yr stats say we are unlikely to finish in the top 2. Otherwise I'm happy .
Would get absolutely steamrollered. Chalobah had a fantastic season as a 17 year old eight(!) seasons ago and has never had a good one since. One very brief spell under Silva (and before a career limiting injury) seems to be the sole basis of this kind of optimism. Quina has looked neat and tidy in his cameos with a good shot on him but to think he's suddenly going to be able to be the main playmaker in the team is so optimistic/deluded. Worth remembering the Newcastle game the season before last - looked great for the first 15-20 minutes and then Benitez called Diame over, told him to sit on Quina and he got bullied out of the game, doing nothing after that. And Hughes is an excellent footballer at Championship level but he sort of shuffles around at mid pace. There's no dynamism there, in this division he could be the Abdi of the team, all about weight of pass keeping the team moving forwards. But alongside an immobile Chalobah and a lightweight Quina, it would be an absolute disaster. Watson, Guedioura, Abdi was far stronger than Chalobah, Quina, Hughes.
This is where the club has to be strong. Of course our squad could be picked clean if we allow that to happen. We have to operate this season as a Premier League club on vacation from the Premier League itself. Once you get a couple of key players go, who are not the Deulofeu's, then that will be noticed in the dressing room. Everyone has an opinion on the worth of a particular player to the squad. I think someone like Capoue going would raise alarm bells and could the catalyst for players like Hughes, Foster, Sarr etc to say....I'm not convinced of the club's ambition here. I can't see this squad getting promoted so I want out too. This is what the club have to protect against. Selling too many of their star players. They are all under contract, so the club does have the power to retain a player, but of course you want him willing and pulling for the cause. If the club are wise, they will build something exciting and even the good players will want to be a part of it. All we're seeing in the training photos are the mundane players going through their paces. No disrespect to them, but they are the bread and butter. We've seen plenty of Masina, Kabs, Dawson, Cleverley, Chalobah, Quina, Dele-Bashiru etc.......but nothing of Sarr. Is he even with the squad? It seems that virtually all the big name players are missing. Even Hughes isn't there, although apparently he's injured. Not seen Capoue or Welbeck actually training, no Doucoure or Pererya. So many notable missing faces.
I think you are right and I would like us to retain Capoue above most other players. One reading of our position is goal shy team, with weak defence and imploding midfield. We'd be lucky to get mid-table. However, the new coach has a specific brief to improve players. If the likes of Chalobah, Quina and Dele-Bashiru can become Premier League players is for Ivic to work out. You'd hope that if they let players go it will be because they have confidence in that, but sadly it may just be to balance the books.
We'd need more in midfield if Doucoure and Capoue go. It's all very well bigging up the likes of Chalobah, Quina and Dele-Bashiru, but that's a hell of a lot of blind faith going on there. We know Chalobah is a bit injury prone. Quina has endurance issues. Dele-Bashiru is very young and has hardly played at first team level in his career. We would need a bit of muscle and nasty if those two go. Sure Hughes has a bit about him, but I'd like to see us get another Behrami type. Experienced, but knows the dark arts and has a bit of quality about him. If we allow Capoue and Doucoure out the door, we'd be very lightweight and inexperienced in midfield.
Agree that it would be an important role to improve them as players but it's the lack of physicality that I doubt he can do much about. If we're gunning for promotion, we're going to have to impose our game on others but to do so we'll have to match them physically. Where are the midfielders that can shrug an opponent off as they break forward or chase one down, lever them off the ball to start an attack for us in Quina, Hughes, Chalobah, Dele-Bashiru?
