England...

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by wfc4ever, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    So that is where most of our squad have gone to.

    Playing the Czech Republic..well I put that loosely.

    England turned up for 5 minutes....

    Having watched Danny Rose not sure he would have improved our defence that much!!

    Praise has been on England for recent results but that certainly will get a lot of criticism.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  2. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Pretty sure Southgate has few ideas when things don’t start well. He’s strong at beating cannon fodder. And promoting younger players to fair. Tactically he delivers the same as he did at Middlesbrough.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  3. Horace_goes_up_north

    Horace_goes_up_north First Year Pro

    Seems like he tried a lot of young players in an unusually rare relatively tough group game that we could pretty much afford to lose.

    I think he'd have gained a lot from that for next year.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    And playing badly of form players like Keane and Rose hardly helped..

    Infact was anyone in the defence an in form player?
     
  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    He played Mount. Everyone else was pretty established?
     
  6. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Southgate is an incredibly average manager. The waistcoated McLaren.
     
  7. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Pretty awful performance, watching England in qualifying stages is a bit like the early stages of the champions league..... completely unforgetable
     
  8. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Agree. he reminds me of Holebas a couple of seasons ago, though without the set pieces - spends more time on the floor, or moaning at other players, than he does actually defending. He's also passed his best and starting to lose his pace.

    Can we really not find a decent left-back on the way up?!
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  9. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Those were the strangest decisions. Surely either Gomez or Mings would have been better than Keane? And Chilwell instead of Rose. TAA and Walker are also better than Trippier.

    Maguire is having a decent season though, despite Utd's league position. He was the only one of the defensive picks which made sense.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  10. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Southgate has had Mings in the squad before so guess he didn't impress?

    Also not a fan of TAA..?

    Strange as he isn't afraid to drop poorly performing midfielders or attackers albeit no one played well last night .
     
  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Mings is in the squad, on the bench - second time he's been called up, therefore he bust be impressing to some degree to warrant a repeat inclusion.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  13. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

  14. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Sorry it was that or the Sun which maybe sums the story being reported up!
     
  15. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    I thought they were us in disguise.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  16. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well better from England on the pitch but all will be overshadowed by events off it .

    Will the Bulgarians deny it all again ?
     
  17. Horace_goes_up_north

    Horace_goes_up_north First Year Pro

    I feel for Tyrone Mings tonight. First England call up and is totally overshadowed by all this. But the guy has been totally professional in interviews and still looks clearly made up about his first England call up and has handled it all well despite the despicable attitudes shown.

    Despite the Bournemouth loathing by some on here, would be great to show some support and solidarity on 26th in our next home match.

    It needs to be kicked out for good.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  18. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    World class from the Bulgaria coach.

    Didn’t hear any of the abuse during the game, despite it being clear as day on TV broadcast, but did hear whistles during the Bulgarian anthem and was deeply disturbed.

    Goes on to claim that the captain only went to speak with fans at HT because of the poor performance of the team.

    Bravo, Sir.
     
  19. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Agree with the sentiments, but he plays for Aston Villa now.
     
  20. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I presume he's thinking Bournemouth begins with a B like Bulgaria. So we should boo Bournmeouth mercilessly and accuse them loudly of racism. All teams beginning with B have to take responsibility for this problem.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  21. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    Appalling scenes last night and Bulgaria need an example made of them by FIFA/UEFA. Not a pathetic little fine or half a stadium closed but a ban from international football for 4 years (to cover the next world Cup & Euros). It may be a societal problem that is publicly manifested on TV at football matches but a ban will start to get the message across. the racist scum can then crawl back under their stones starved of the oxygen of publicity. They won't change their views but at least the rest of the world won't have to see or hear them.

    Not sure about the FIFA 3-step protocol either. It sort of says that it's OK to be racist twice before proper action is taken. In addition, it should be the team the racists follow who should walk off, not the victims. Popov should be applauded for his part in pleading with his own 'fans'.

    However, let's not pretend we don't have a problem with racism in the UK that is festering away, particularly at grass roots level. There is also an element of the England following that are probably keeping quiet at the moment but would be quite happy to aggressively assert their 'nationalism' drunkenly in foreign bars, chanting about two world wars and one world cup and suchlike.
     
  22. Hornpete

    Hornpete Reservist

    Agree lots.

    Theres a level of devils advocacy in my reply to this so bear that in mind before casting stones...

    This is half what the bulgaria coach was saying. Imagine if England were chucked out of international competition for 4 years because of chants about the IRA or 30 idiots pushing tourists into fountains or bleating on about a war they were not alive in to the germans, or whistling through opponents national anthems? Or a small group making monkey noises at an opponent? How's that fair on me or you or the players or Southgate?

    And what about the chelsea fans abuse of sterling or the black guy on the train? Or many other clubs across the country.

    How do we deal with racism in the country? We ID, we ban, we educate others and we kick the individuals out. UEFA need an action toolkit for assisting countries like Bulgaria educate and act, not just omit them from the competition. Tickets only to signed up individuals, like the Millwall scheme that the wrong uns didnt like. Dear Bulgarian FA, take this action or no fans until you do.

    The action taken last night worked, I dont know if the group of protagonists were all going to the bar before half time or were leaving because the man on the tannoy told them to, or if they just got fed up of not being able to vent in a racist way without cameras on them. Whatever happened they left.

    Ian Wright was happy last night because it wasnt being swept under the carpet.
     
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  23. Horace_goes_up_north

    Horace_goes_up_north First Year Pro

    Aha. Good point .
     
  24. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Absolutely. Getting Morten Harket involved can only help.
     
  25. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    It was against inferior opposition, but Chilwell and Mings did indeed seem better than Rose and Keane. No idea why Southgate picked that team vs the Czechs.
     
  26. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Quite enjoyed watching the fascist loonies trouncing out of the stadium just before half time. Big brave boys covering their faces. Well done to all involved within the England set up, about time a stand was made.
     
  27. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    Agreed wholeheartedly apart from I think both teams should have walked off.

    The racism shown last night was the ugly, explicit kind that many football fans were showing here in the 70s/80s without fear of recrimination. In 21st century Britain the knuckle-draggers are still here but have learnt to be more subtle because they know the cameras are on them and the British public generally & strongly disapproves of it. The Bulgarian manager was right although he didn't express it accurately (or have the chance to).
     
  28. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The Bulgarian manager said he didn’t hear any racist chanting and started deflecting about whistling during a national anthem. What do you mean he was right?

    You seem focused on sticking the boot into the England fans (who I am no fan of by the way) but last night was all about the Bulgarians and it’s bizarre you want to focus on the England fans.
     
  29. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    Follow the thread. He said that there is a problem with racism in British football and he is right on that point. His denial of the racism last night is obviously ridiculous. As for focusing on the English fans, all I've done is pointed out their racism is different to the explicit display from the Bulgarian fans which rightly gets our attention & outrage. But as I said earlier, we can't pretend it doesn't exist in the UK.

    Interesting to note that the Daily Mail is among those condemning last night's racism, yet its own insidious version of racism has been stirring things up in the UK for years.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  30. Horace_goes_up_north

    Horace_goes_up_north First Year Pro

    I'll be gone in a day or 2.
     
  31. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    But again. Would you prefer the Daily Mail do not report it? The Bulgarians should be hammered from all quarters for last night. Now is not a time for whataboutery which deflects from the outrage whether it comes from you or the Bulgarian manager.
     
  32. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    It's not whataboutery, it's pointing out the hypocrisy of some in their reactions. All racism is evil and if you read my first post in this thread you will see my total condemnation of the Bulgarian fans and my view that the authorities didn't do enough last night and are not doing enough generally.
     
  33. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well they seem to be denying it all which is maybe the bigger problem ?

    At least here racism is seen as an issue that needs to be stopped ..
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  34. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    The President of the Bulgarian FA has resigned under pressure from their PM.

    That's political interference, albeit in a good cause. And isn't political interference punishable by suspension from international competition?
     
  35. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Having thought about this today, I believe the England team should have left the pitch last night.

    I expect there is a natural tendency for footballers, perhaps especially black footballers, to feel an obligation to complete a match so as not to let down their teammates, manager, fans or country, or even just to uphold the integrity of the competition. However, the point of making the decision to walk off would be to send a message to UEFA and other authorities that to protect the players against extreme racist behaviour is more important than any other result of such action. (i.e. we don’t care if this results in the loss of points or even England not qualifying for the Finals.)

    The best way of doing this would have been to force the famous 3-point protocol through to its conclusion. I understand this relies on the officials present and the referee first taking all players off the pitch and then ultimately abandoning the game. With the racism continuing as it did, England, in the form of Kane, Southgate and the FA officials present, should have strongly requested these sanctions. If they were not forthcoming England should have unilaterally abandoned the game.

    If more countries took this action in such circumstances the implementation of the 3-point protocol would become more the norm instead of the unused process it is now.

    The subsequent punishment of the Bulgarian FA is another question, but what UEFA should be aiming for is to compel the Bulgarian authorities to identify and ban the offenders from attending football matches. It’s true that in Britain we are certainly not blameless when it comes to racist behaviour but we do at least attempt to police it as effectively as possible.
     

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