Emiliano Sala - 1990-2019

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by luke_golden, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    And there you have it. A major news source now dangling complete speculation in front of people when two people have probably died.
     
  2. Burnsy

    Burnsy Reservist

    To be fair to SSN, they have only taken that news from the official Guernsey Police twitter and press release. So it’s the authorities that are dangling that line, and you’d imagine they must have something to go on in making that their lead in the search.
     
    Filbert likes this.
  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I believe had they been in a life raft then they would have been spotted by now. The Channel is not really big enough to avoid a search and rescue team for 3 days, however, it's not speculation. SSN have direct contact with the Chief Exec of the Search and Rescue Team, and confirmed they are looking for a life raft. It has also been confirmed the plane did have a life raft on board, which does increase the possibility of survival.
     
  4. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    Fair enough.
     
  5. Unhappy bunny

    Unhappy bunny Squad Player

    Yes, but we have a certain connection as fellow members of "the football family". That term never rings true when used by FIFA, but I think it applies here.

    We haven't seen him play but we can appreciate Cardiff's loss and the loss felt by those who supported his previous clubs. It's like when a neighbour whose house you never visited but who you regularly ran into in the newsagents passes.
     
    folkestone orn and HappyHornet24 like this.
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Especially as we had something similar with Jimmy Davies, albeit less high profile.
     
  7. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    As a nervous flyer (albeit one who would never step onto a single-engined plane), I always go onto the pilots forum when there's an accident - bizarrely I find it reassures me to read comments from people who know what they're talking about. Anyway, there is a lot of surprise on there that Cardiff would have allowed their player to take a flight of this nature. I know the club is claiming the player made his own arrangements but I am sceptical considering it is now emerging that Sala was nervous about the flight. There is a video on the BBC called "My life as a ferry pilot" which features exactly this type of plane and journey and the pilot alludes to there being a life raft in the back. However, he also refers to the need to wear an immersive suit which unfortunately I doubt Sala or the pilot were wearing in this instance.
     
  8. PhilippineOrn

    PhilippineOrn First Team

    And I feel sorry for morons that slaver over TMZ.
     
  9. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    which forum is that may I ask? I hate flying too. But I watch aircrash investigators and find that strangely reassuring for the same reasons.
     
  10. Burnsy

    Burnsy Reservist

    Must be a tough one for Cardiff. And I’m not here to downplay what they must be feeling - but that being said, the squad had never met him and it will only be board members and perhaps Warnock who did. He isn’t a part of the club’s fabric yet. I’m sure they will be grieving if the worst is confirmed but it’s a strange type of grief.

    Nantes and his previous clubs will be feeling this strongly and the condolences should certainly be sent their way if/when it’s confimed.
     
  11. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

  12. Vicarage Road

    Vicarage Road Reservist

    I think Claude Puel’s personality has rubbed off on you, Filbert.
     
  13. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I realise that God is omnipotent, but even he might struggle to give Andre Gray even the tiniest amount of composure.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  14. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Now officially a recovery and not a rescue mission, according to SSN.
     
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy Reservist

    They must have found something significant. Either that or the separate authorities aren't very coordinated because its gone from 'looking for a life raft' to a 'recovery operation' in just a couple of hours.
     
  16. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    Single engined light aircraft fly over water all time.. including the channel. Certainly the risk factor goes up for these type of aircraft but so do survival chances. Large planes normally break up if crash landing in open water but smaller ones tend to stay together.. hence them bovering to carry liferafts. Seems survival rates are fairly high for ditching small planes if this is to be believed.. http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm

    The only unusual factor in this incident is that they choose to fly at night.. but i'm sure the conspiracy theorists will be all over this, coming up with countless reasons why the flight should not have taken place and the reasons behind it.
     
  17. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    They said something along the lines of they were prioritising where they searched on the basis of the life raft theory. Which presumably means the search area was defined on that basis - ie. by mapping where the current etc would most likely have carried a life raft and then concentrating on looking there.

    Doesn't mean the life raft idea was considered the most likely scenario, nor that it wouldn't take more than a few hours to rule out. Of the 4 possibles suggested by the police it was the only one that offered any hope Sala/the pilot were alive after all this time and was searchable locally. The other options the police put forward were landed 'elsewhere' (ie. no defined search area), landed in the sea and picked up by a passing ship (ie. no defined search area) and crashed into the sea and ended up in it (ie. definitely dead already).

    I expect the search would already have been called off if the passenger wasn't so high profile.
     
  18. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

  19. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    The Professional Pilots Rumour Network.
     
  20. Diamond

    Diamond Squad Player

    It's a great forum.

    These two posts are perfect:

    How come a highly experienced pilot flies through a very well predicted snow storm, in a single, at night, over water. (we got the same front a few hrs later reaching the Belgium coast)
    At 5000ft? In the middle of the predicted and actual icing zone.
    While he can climb to safety with power and options to spare?
    And on top of that? ? ?
    Asks for a lower altitude?
    With an undercooled and certainly partially iced over airframe going through predicted and actual snow?
    I have done stupid things in my life, but this one is a hard one.


    However the big question is how a £15 million football star found himself being flown by from Nantes to Cardiff by a gas engineer and part time pilot in a single piston engined aircraft at night
     
  21. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Had a thought in the shower earlier that a dead rat tied by some string to Deeneys ankle would probably be more effective than Gray.
     
  22. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Twitter seems to have descended into ‘everyone’s a search and rescue expert’ fookwittery now. Loads of Cardiff fans jamming the switchboard of Guernsey Police and slagging off the authorities last night because someone posted a picture from Tuesday morning of the remnants of flares in the sky. The Twitterati have worked out there’s an island near there and have convinced themselves Sala and the pilot are holed up there in the ruins of a stone cottage someone found of google. They’re not happy it’s only been searched from the air, even though it’s apparently treacherous to reach at this time of year and the RNLI did briefly land there on the night of the disappearance.

    The tail is well and truly wagging the dog now.
     
    Filbert likes this.
  23. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    I see you have already tried the Peyote ?
     
  24. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Thanks for posting. An interesting read on there.
     
  25. Burnsy

    Burnsy Reservist

    Slightly worried about the fact you had that thought whilst in the shower....
     
  26. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    I agree it's a good read.

    Basically no pilot in their right mind would have done that flight: At night, no/little visual, weather forecast, single engine over large amount of sea.
     
  27. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Lucky he found a gas fitter ready to take on the challenge then.
     
  28. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    Amazing.

    Most Leicester fans have a full knowledge of how helicopters work now thanks to twitter and Foxestalk.
     
    cyaninternetdog and nornironhorn like this.
  29. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    From that forum, interesting analysis:

    “As an ex RAF sea survival instructor (at Sqn level) I have posted on this subject several times in the past.

    The only real precaution you can take is to have two engines. If the single fan stops when you over open ocean (Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation applies) and even if you manage to carry out a decent ditching (or water landing as we seem to call it) you chances are slim unless:

    1. You have all the necessary survival gear
    AND 2. you have been trained too use it in realistic conditions (realistic conditions = in the sea, not in a swimming pool)

    It is the bit in bold that most people just don't get. And when it comes to discussing this with armchair experts, especially pilots that expound a view without ever having done real training, I always say this. If you haven't been chucked into a cold, dark, stormy sea from height at at least 20 miles per hour, then listen and learn from those who have.

    And for the record, I understand and agree with those who aware of this and are still happy to transit single engine over the ocean. Some folk weigh life experience versus risk and embrace it. I do so myself as most of my hill-walking is solo. IMHO the equation alters however, when you take responsibility for the welfare of one or more other human beings.

    The vast majority of survivable ditchings feature most of the following criteria:

    Daylight
    Flat/calm water
    very close to land or a surface vessel
    warm or mild weather/water
    good drills
    good training
    good kit”

    Sounds like very few of these conditions applied on this flight.

    Awful, sad news.
     
    miked2006 likes this.
  30. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Very sad news but seems on the face of it a poor decision of the pilot to make the flight at that time based on the weather conditions. Got to wonder what he was paid?
     
  31. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    I only skimmed through that pilot forum, if I've understood it correctly for that flight to be legal the pilot would have had to have paid 50% of the flight fees as he was one of two on board. If the flight is found to be illegal under aviation rules of France or the UK I would reckon that the life-insurance and insurance Cardiff may have had won't pay out. Cardiff should not have allowed it, they very may well have just spunked £15m.
     
  32. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    So this begs the question ‘what do the Pozzos do on their flights’?

    I remember we flew Vydra over on a Citation or Lear jet a few years back, and we have European players always flying home and injured players off to see some Itslian knee specialist in Rome or whatever.

    I expect we minimise risk for Pozzos, senior staff and players if not using commercial flights by having:
    Twin engines
    2 qualified experienced pilots
    All safety gear
    Proper insurance
    etc etc

    And, importantly, minimising risk by not having all the first team on one plane?

    Seems like the Sala flight was a bit ‘amateur’ and risk assessment not conducted.
    And if he says (tweeted) the plane was making funny noises before take off and he had experience from the flight over to France, why the pilot didn’t recognise things weren’t 100%?

    And are there any black box voice and flight recorders even if they can find them to get to the bottom of what happened? (No pun intended)!?
     
  33. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    I think Okaka and Zeegelaar went to Udinese in a 25 years old dinghy with a small air leak.....
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  34. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    As I understand it from yesterday's Guardian, they didn't arrange the flight although presumably they were told about it at least.
     
  35. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    Re black box, etc - if my understanding of the comments on that forum is correct, I don't think there is a legal requirement for a small "General Aviation" plane of the type in question to have that equipment.
    Re the Sala flight and why the pilot took off with bad/cold weather forecast - anything at this point is pure conjecture so not saying this was the case in this instance, but pilots on that forum have commented about risks sometimes being taken by pilots because of pressure put on them to get their client from A to B on time. One person on there talks about a time when, as one of three passengers on a small plane, he was made to literally run to the plane for an early departure as fog was rolling in and the pilot wanted to take off before it got there. They took off just as the fog was reaching the runway; the flight was fine but the feeling on the forum was that the pilot in this instance put his passengers at risk by taking off in these circumstances, rather than delaying the flight.
     

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